Top Posting... Can we have an LO Mailing List Guidelines Page?

>Hi :slight_smile:
>Look, the interspersed answers from Larry are practically unidentifiable from the message. By posting at the top (or bottom) it would have been clearer which were your answers.
Every line of the post I am replying to has a > in front of it if
using a plain text reader. In thunderbird as I have it configured
there is a coloured vertical line before all of the text I am
replying to and not in front of my reply.

Whether that shows up is a function of what MUA you use to read the
message, or perhaps what the list software does. I use Mutt and your
posts show a ">" before the first character of the first line of quote
and a "+" before each subsequent line of the quoted passage. Also, you
don't isolate the quote from what you write with one or more blank
lines top and bottom. This adds to the confusion, at least for me.

I was giving specific
answers to each part of your post. Interspersing makes it clear what
specific point I was responding to.

True.

           ........snip.......

Hi :slight_smile:
I use a standard email client in a standard way set on it's defaults.  There are likely to be more people using such systems as LibreOffice becomes more popular.  Hold onto your hats!

Is someone holding a gun to your head to force you to use your mail
client's defaults?

Why are people in here so determined to make things unpleasant and difficult for normal office workers?  Is LibreOffice not meant to be used in offices by office workers?
Regards from

Do the defaults include not trimming or wrapping your lines?

          ........snip of superfluous crap........

1. Did you reply to the confirmation email?
2. Don't hijack threads

Ease up. The guy said he followed all the instructions.

There are many nuances as to why sometimes top posting is a better choice, but, because this is really a personal preference that I frequently see turn into a mean-spirited flame war, I won't bother to enumerate them here and now.

Are you aware of any email software that can be configured to easily deal with bottom posting (ie, when you hit reply, it places the cursor at the bottom of the message rather than the top, and, while reading the email, it skips the repeated top content and places the view screen beginning at the first new content)?

I always figured that I should top AND bottom post. You decide if that is so that everyone will be happy, or no one will be happy :slight_smile:

Thunderbird will start your reply at the bottom. And I've seen others with this option also. But I've never seen any email program that will go simply to the new content. I'm not sure it would even be possible, as a lot of where the new content in would depend on what the writer/poster did.

I hear that a lot. You should get a mail program that can be set to ignore HTML. Thunderbird can be set to ignore HTML. I'm sure there are others.

TB, if set to ignore HTML used to give you a blank screen (and a warning?) when messages with only HTML, no text, arrived. I don't know what the latest TB incarnation does.

David Teague
-- nil significat nisi oscillat
do wop, do wop, do wop.

I guess some programs will have an option to "collapse" quoted text. I
suggest searching in addons.mozilla.org for a thunderbird extension that
does that (I thought QuoteColors did it, but apparently it doesn't).

Other clients will do a pretty good job, like Claws-Mail, but I don't
know about collapsing quoted text.

As for Gnus, either it does have some way to collapse quoted text or you
hack it so that it does.

This list should allow people to use what they are familiar with
rather than try
to alienate new users surely?

I dont agree with you.

There are many nuances as to why sometimes top posting is a better
choice, but, because this is really a personal preference that I
frequently see turn into a mean-spirited flame war, I won't bother to
enumerate them here and now.

Are you aware of any email software that can be configured to easily
deal with bottom posting (ie, when you hit reply, it places the cursor
at the bottom of the message rather than the top, and, while reading the
email, it skips the repeated top content and places the view screen
beginning at the first new content)?

I always figured that I should top AND bottom post. You decide if that
is so that everyone will be happy, or no one will be happy :slight_smile:

Thunderbird will start your reply at the bottom. And I've seen others
with this option also. But I've never seen any email program that
will go simply to the new content. I'm not sure it would even be
possible, as a lot of where the new content in would depend on what
the writer/poster did.

I guess some programs will have an option to "collapse" quoted text. I
suggest searching in addons.mozilla.org for a thunderbird extension that
does that (I thought QuoteColors did it, but apparently it doesn't).

Quote colors would really be nice, but it's incompatible with this version of TB at the moment. I hope the author updates it.

I did find Quote Highlight and QuoteCollapse, and I suspect the second one does what you are requesting. I can take a screenshot of what it does and email it if you would like to see the results.

Ken, I cannot find where to configure that..... No wait, that is in account settings. probably a better place for it than in the global preferences. Off hand, i would say that it should be configurable at the folder level. Nice tip!

You must be very careful with that setting. Better if you can set that based on other filter criteria as well; for example, do not allow HTML from that mailing list, but, allow it from your boss, mother, and girl friend.

I guess some programs will have an option to "collapse" quoted text. I
suggest searching in addons.mozilla.org for a thunderbird extension that
does that (I thought QuoteColors did it, but apparently it doesn't).

Quote colors would really be nice, but it's incompatible with this version of TB at the moment. I hope the author updates it.

I hacked the version compatibility on QuoteColors and it works fine on TB 6.02

I did find Quote Highlight and QuoteCollapse, and I suspect the second one does what you are requesting. I can take a screenshot of what it does and email it if you would like to see the results.

QuoteCollapse collapses all but the last post in the thread. Works great on lists where people do not trim the messages they are replying to.

In
news:1910892523-1315498044-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1807574881-@b2.c1.bise7.blackberry,
Onyeibo Oku <twohotis@gmail.com> typed:

Sorry, this is another top-post. I agree totally but you
need to give people benefit of doubt too (like in my case
... I'm mobile and the mail app on this phone is
hardcoded to push all quotes below the reply)

Otherwise, I do bottom posts when I'm my desktop/laptop

Sheesh! Speaking of lazy; it takes exactly 2 keystrokes to from the
top/bottom to the bottom/top of any post or e-mail. CTRL HomeOREnd does the
job!

You won't have any luck in changing the bottom-posting preferences as it's
long established that the wishes of the masses will not change for the
wishes of the minorities simply for the minor convenience you present.

---------------------------------------------
from twohot@device.mobile :slight_smile:

From: Mihamina Rakotomandimby <mihamina@rktmb.org>
Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 16:10:50
To: <users@global.libreoffice.org>
Reply-To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Top Posting... Can we
have an LO Mailing
List Guidelines Page?

For long threads, scrolling down to the bottom to read
the new stuff is a pain.

Because your correspondants did not trim the message, as
I just did for
yours: I just select the line I want to answer and click
on "reply".
It keeps (quotes) just the selected line.

Your MUA does not? Use a clever one.

Sheesh! Speaking of lazy; it takes exactly 2 keystrokes to from the
top/bottom to the bottom/top of any post or e-mail. CTRL HomeOREnd does the
job!

You won't have any luck in changing the bottom-posting preferences as it's
long established that the wishes of the masses will not change for the
wishes of the minorities simply for the minor convenience you present. You
have three volations in just this one post, in fact!

HTH,

Twayne`

I do appreciate your calling me lazy sir. Thanks

Amen Dennis!

I do the same as you. I look at the most recent post in the thread - if top posted I make a call if I want to read any of the thread - if bottom posted I have to hit Ctl - end to get to the bottom of the message or scroll through way too many reply brackets to get to the bottom

I subscribe to the each his own theory - one size does not fit all

Those who ramble on about whether top or bottom posting should be the norm and criticize those who do not comply with their desires are probably the same people who criticize developers who set options to defaults that do not comply with their way of thinking.

Onward! Ever upward! To the top!!!

Preston

I managed to miss that part of his post. Many apologies, Dave.

In
news:1910892523-1315498044-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1807574881-@b2.c1.bise7.blackberry,
Onyeibo Oku<twohotis@gmail.com> typed:

Sorry, this is another top-post. I agree totally but you
need to give people benefit of doubt too (like in my case
... I'm mobile and the mail app on this phone is
hardcoded to push all quotes below the reply)

Otherwise, I do bottom posts when I'm my desktop/laptop

Sheesh! Speaking of lazy; it takes exactly 2 keystrokes to from the
top/bottom to the bottom/top of any post or e-mail. CTRL HomeOREnd does the
job!

You won't have any luck in changing the bottom-posting preferences as it's
long established that the wishes of the masses will not change for the
wishes of the minorities simply for the minor convenience you present.

Hmmm, a couple of comments.

I dislike laptops because the keyboards are horrid compared to my standard keyboard. Pressing this key combination may be problematic. Still, perhaps it is lazy, but, that feels harsh to me.

If the entire mass of people preferred bottom posting, then top/bottom posting would rarely come up on the list. Every company where I have worked, top posting is used (every company has used OUTLOOK, and that is how the computers are pre-configured). Most of the people that I email on a regular basis top post, not bottom post. I expect, however, that top posting is strongly preferred for personal correspondence, because the only time that bottom posting seems to be advantageous is if you see an email message for the first time after there have already been numerous responses. In that case, it is easier to read from top to bottom. If you have been following the thread, however, then bottom posting is less efficient and annoying (and no email software supports positioning the view to the first non-quoted text).

I only see top/bottom posting comments on OOo/LO related email lists. Never noticed it mentioned on the other lists to which I subscribe. Hmmm, I should take a look.

Argyll mailing list, I see almost exclusively top posting.

On the GIMP documentation mailing list, it seems to be mostly top posting and some interspersed.

GNOME mailing list seems to have a large number of bottom posts, but, most are interspersed and some of the long time posters are top posters.

I did not check Apache, but, I think that the Apache lists recently mentioned something about this, so, I expect that they have a preference for bottom posting as well, but, I cannot swear to it.

I can't say I ever paid it much mind until I saw people get all riled up about it.

If you want bottom posting, and only bottom posting, then LO should make that as a clear decision and then that should be communicated when you sign up, and, it should be posted on a FAQ. Then, when some uninformed person top posts, a nicely worded response that bottom posting is recommended on LO mailing lists, and then provide a link to terms of usage that states this. The important item, however, is that these uninformed people be treated nicely and that their questions are answered. It is counter-productive to the project to provide a response to their question only to berate them without answering their question.

Couldn't agree more.

No wait, that is in account settings. probably a better place for it
than in the global preferences.

No, because certain accounts you may want to treat differently.

Off hand, i would say that it should be configurable at the folder
level.

That would be a great feature, probably doable in an addon...

I agree, been using it for many years...