two dots above the i in presentation.

users
#1

Dear Document Foundation,

I don't know if this is the correct email address to be contacting you for
this sort of thing.

But I have noticed that in presentation, when I type naive, two dots appear
above the i. This only appears to happen when I type the word naive and not
anything else I have typed so far.

Yours Sincerely,

Sampath Rajapakse

#2

The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.

--doug

#3

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
This is true and i hadn't noticed LibreOffice was that smart.  It explains why things often look good in LO without it being obvious why.
Thanks and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#4

For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema". The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent, whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an accent.

Brian Barker

#5

Brian wrote:

For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
accent.

Not quite. “Umlaut” is not a character or a mark but the linguistic
phenomenon whereby a vowel sound changes under the influence of another
vowel (e.g. Haus > Häuser). In German this is marked by a diaeresis (the
two dots), called “trema” in German. Calling the symbol “an umlaut” is a
solecism.

#6

Hi :slight_smile:
I thought the umlaut was a specific type of such a mark and that there were quite a few different markings, and in different languages, that could change the way a letter sounds?
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#7

Tom wrote:

I thought the umlaut was a specific type of such a mark and that there
were quite a few different markings, and in different languages, that
could change the way a letter sounds?

Diacritical marks are used for lots of different purposes in different
languages though the marks themselves have often been copied from other
languages. The diaeresis was first used for Greek, to show that a vowel
was pronounced separately and not part of a diphthong; this was later
applied to French for the same purpose (hence “naïve”), but the same
mark was later applied to German for umlaut, which was originally shown
by means of a small 〈e〉 over the letter. Just easier to write, I
suppose.

#8

Brian Barker wrote:

The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots, known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.

For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema". The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent, whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an accent.

Brian Barker

For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it, you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á, ẽ, £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.

#9

** Reply to message from James Knott <james.knott@rogers.com> on Tue, 13 Mar
2012 08:18:20 -0400

Brian Barker wrote:
>> The "absolutely" correct spelling of the word naïve has the two dots,
>> known in English as a dieresis, or in German as an Umlaut, indicating
>> a change in sound, rather than a diphthong.
>
> For what it's worth, the German for "diaeresis" appears to be "Trema".
> The umlaut looks the same, but it's a different mark: it is an accent,
> whereas the diaeresis is (as you describe) also a diacritic but not an
> accent.
>
> Brian Barker
>
>
For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
, £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.

Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
find out that information? Thanks.

Cliff

#10

Cliff Scott wrote:

For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
> special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
> you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
> , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.

Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
find out that information? Thanks.

The exact details depend on the operating system. In Linux, there's generally a Personal Settings utility, where you can select the keyboard type. In Windows 7, just click on the Start button and type "language" in the box. One of the items that will be listed is "Change keboards or other input method". In there, select the Keyboards and languages tab and click on Change keyboards. Under English (United States), you will find many different keyboard layouts. You can select multiple keyboards if you wish and select the desired one by clicking on the Keyboard icon on the bar. You can also select keyboards under other languages, such as German, but then you have to select between languages by using the left Alt + Shift keys. If you just want those special characters occasionally, under English (United States), add United States - International. You can, if you wish, delete the original US keyboard. Since this is done at the operating system level, it works for all applications.

I have no idea about Macs.

#11

Cliff Scott wrote:

For those who are interested, it's possible to generate the various
> special characters by using the U.S. International keyboard. With it,
> you can use the right Alt key to create those characters, such as ü, á,
> , £, € etc. The left Alt key works as usual.

Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
find out that information? Thanks.

C

Forgot to mention, you can find info on using that layout here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_keyboard_layout#US-International
The Linux and Windows keyboards are very close, though not an exact match, to the layout shown.

#12

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb964658.aspx

or a google search with e.g. "alt numpad for symbols"

Werner

#13

Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
find out that information? Thanks.

You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.

Regards
Mark Stanton
One small step for mankind...

#14

Just to mention, the keys that are annotated as "dead keys" actually
do work but you have to hit the space bar after entering the
particular key. ie to type ~ which is a "dead key" I strike the key as
normal followed by the space bar and the character will be entered. At
least that is what I found with my system.

Linux Fedora 16 kernel = 3.2.9-2.fc16.x86_64
LXDE Desktop Environment
LO 3.4.5 (Fedora blend)
using writer for test bed

#15

Mark Stanton wrote:

You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.

That mehtod is unique to Microsoft products. It doesn't work in Linux. Dunno 'bout Mac.

#16

Well, the e was, as far as I know, replaced by ¨ because of the
printing quality long ago. The e is always lower case and smaller then
the ”main” letter, and if the paper quality is not fine enough, and
the font is small, all there's left of the e are two dots.

Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

#17

Mark Stanton wrote:

You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.

That mehtod is unique to Microsoft products.  It doesn't work in Linux.
 Dunno 'bout Mac.

The Linux/Unix ”equivalent” should be the Ctrl+Shift+u thing:
Press Ctrl+Shift+u, release the keys, then enter the UNICODE, like
2ab3, then press Enter or space or something, and the ”2ab3” will be
replaced by ”⪳”. Doesn't work in the web browser Opera, which use
another method: UNICODE, then press Ctrl+Shift+x and the UNICODE will
immediately be replaced by the corresponding character.

In Linux/Unix you can also use the Compose key (which key to use for
that can easily be set by the user – I use Caps Lock) to create some
characters. It works like this:
Press the Compose key, release it, then enter two or three characters.
In my case, since I use Caps Lock for Compose, it looks like this:
Caps Lock oc → ©
Caps Lock --. → – (n-dash)
Caps Lock --- → — (m-dash)
Caps Lock oo → °
Caps Lock oa → å
Caps Lock "a → ä
Caps Lock "o → ö
Caps Lock ,c → ç
Caps Lock => ⇒
Caps Lock .. → …
and so on.

Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ

#18

I don't think the right alt key works "out of the box" --you'd have to
modify it to be a Compose key. You could also make the right ctrl key
to be Compose, or the right Microsoft key, if your k/b has one. In
Linux, there's usually a command somewhere that will make a compose
key; in Windows, you can download a freebie called "AllChars" which
does the almost same thing. (The key will still work as Ctrl for other
functions.)

The way it works: You momentarily hit Compose, then fairly quickly in
succession you hit the letter you want to modify and something that
looks like the mark you want to modify it with. (The order of the
letter and the mark doesn't matter.) You can get all the usual
European diacritical marks, plus the €, the ¥ the £, the ¢, the
German ß, and ½, ⅓, ¼, °, Greek ų and probably a few things I
forgot. The ß and the ° are made by striking the desired key twice
after Compose. The fractions by Compose 1 2, and so on.

The compose key will work for virtually any test, including the
console, email, LO, whatever you have.

--doug

#19

Doug wrote:

I don't think the right alt key works "out of the box" --you'd have to
modify it to be a Compose key. You could also make the right ctrl key
to be Compose, or the right Microsoft key, if your k/b has one.

You just have to enable the U.S. - International keyboard, as I mentioned in another note.

#20

** Reply to message from Mark Stanton <mark@vowleyfarm.co.uk> on Tue, 13 Mar
2012 16:39:33 -0000

> Pardon my ignorance, but could you describe how that works or where one would
> find out that information? Thanks.

You hold down the ALt key and, using the numeric keypad only (I think, but
might be wrong), you key in the ASCII code for the letter you want.

I seem to recall something like that from long ago. Thanks!

Cliff