Untranslated strings in Labels and Business Cards dialog

l10n
#1

Hello @ll,
during my MozTrap test yesterday, I discovered, that there are
untranslated strings in "File – New – Labels" and "File – New –
Business Cards" ... :frowning: Regarding to Christian Kühl (who did a quick
search in Pootle – thanks again, Christian :slight_smile: ), these strings seem
not to be translatable ... :frowning: Would it be possible to get them into
Pootle to translate them?

How to verify:

1. Open LO with an non-English UI
2. Go to "File – New – Labels"
3. Use e.g. "Tower" as "Brand" and open the dropdown menu near
"Type"

You will see strings like "CIL-W227 Diskette Face" or "CIL-W224
Audio Cassette". I think, they should be translatable as well ... :wink:

Discovered with:
LO: Version: 4.2.3.2 Build-ID:
7c5c769e412afd32da4d946d2cb0c8b0674e95e0 (parallel installed,
following the instructions from
https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Installing_in_parallel)
OS: Debian Testing i686

What do you think? Should these strings be translated?

Have a nice day
Thomas.

#2

Hi,

1. Open LO with an non-English UI
2. Go to "File – New – Labels"
3. Use e.g. "Tower" as "Brand" and open the dropdown menu near
"Type"

You will see strings like "CIL-W227 Diskette Face" or "CIL-W224
Audio Cassette". I think, they should be translatable as well ... :wink:

In my opinion, these are product names and therefore should not be translated.

Best regards,
Andras

#3

These look like standard names for stick-on labels (?).
In harmonisation practive, the standards' codes (cyphers) usually are only transcribed, indeed, but titles *are* translated. How else? :slight_smile:

Yury

#4

Hi,

These look like standard names for stick-on labels (?).
In harmonisation practive, the standards' codes (cyphers) usually are only
transcribed, indeed, but titles *are* translated. How else? :slight_smile:

There are 1733 label names in extras/source/labels/labels.xml. Many of
them are in German. I'm pretty sure that many of them are not
available in most countries or at all (old, obsoleted products).

Best regards,
Andras

#5

As far as I can remember, this used to be a text file in old OO.o days
and I remember localizing it (as one of rare languages that had it
localized). Then someone from OO.o decided it was going to be included
in some other way (and will be made localizable, again, if I can
remember; maybe as a pot file).

Then I forgot all about it. I wonder if my translated txt file is
still somewhere in code repositories.

Lp, m.

#6

Hello Martin, *,

As far as I can remember, this used to be a text file in old OO.o
days

do you know, when it was a text file? When I started to help the
Germanophone (at first with translating licenses to German, later to
translate documentation) in 2004, it was handled by an external
company. After starting to report bugs related to errors in the OLH,
we got a chance to translate it ourselves ... :wink: But we never used
pure text files. IIRC, we got *.po files from SUN to translate it
offline ... :wink:

and I remember localizing it (as one of rare languages that
had it localized). Then someone from OO.o decided it was going to
be included in some other way (and will be made localizable,
again, if I can remember; maybe as a pot file).

O.K.

Then I forgot all about it. I wonder if my translated txt file is
still somewhere in code repositories.

Maybe. You could grep through the source code to find out, if you
find some old translations there ... :wink:
Greetings
Thomas.
<Fullquote removed>

#7

Hello Andras, *,

1. Open LO with an non-English UI
2. Go to "File – New – Labels"
3. Use e.g. "Tower" as "Brand" and open the dropdown menu near
"Type"

You will see strings like "CIL-W227 Diskette Face" or "CIL-W224
Audio Cassette". I think, they should be translatable as well ...
:wink:

In my opinion, these are product names and therefore should not be
translated.

I am not sure (a quick search at amazon.de, ebay.de and pearl.de
does not show up any of the above mentioned labels ... :frowning: ), but
normally I have seen parts of the product name translated in the
past (in the above examples this would be "CIL-W227 Diskettenlabel"
or "CIL-W224 Audiokasette" (or something like that). But if you look
a little bit below, you will see the entry "CIL-W228 CD Label for CD
Labeller" (but it is also the case with the brands "Avery A4",
"Avery Lettersize" with entries like "11251 Clear Label/Index Make
Spine Label 1" or larger"), where at least words like "for" or – in
the last example – "or larger" should be translatable ... :wink:

Or am I completely wrong here ;?
Have a nice evening
Thomas.

#8

Hi,

I am not sure (a quick search at amazon.de, ebay.de and pearl.de
does not show up any of the above mentioned labels ... :frowning: ), but
normally I have seen parts of the product name translated in the
past (in the above examples this would be "CIL-W227 Diskettenlabel"
or "CIL-W224 Audiokasette" (or something like that). But if you look
a little bit below, you will see the entry "CIL-W228 CD Label for CD
Labeller" (but it is also the case with the brands "Avery A4",
"Avery Lettersize" with entries like "11251 Clear Label/Index Make
Spine Label 1" or larger"), where at least words like "for" or – in
the last example – "or larger" should be translatable ... :wink:

Or am I completely wrong here ;?
Have a nice evening

Did you notice that audio casettes and diskettes do not exist any
more? :slight_smile: Naturally, there is a little interest from customers for
their labels.

You found a problem, that there are untranslatable text in UI. But the
problem is deeper. We don't know whether this label set is of any use
today. It was made in 90's, 15-20 years ago. It happened definitely
before the code opening in 2000, because half of the label names are
in German.

It would be a good Easy Hack for a non-programmer, to download
catalogs of label makers, and update label.xml -- remove obsoleted
entries and add current entries that people can actually buy today.

Best regards,
Andras

#9

In data lunedì 31 marzo 2014 20:39:23, Andras Timar ha scritto:

You found a problem, that there are untranslatable text in UI. But the
problem is deeper. We don't know whether this label set is of any use
today. It was made in 90's, 15-20 years ago. It happened definitely
before the code opening in 2000, because half of the label names are
in German.

It would be a good Easy Hack for a non-programmer, to download
catalogs of label makers, and update label.xml -- remove obsoleted
entries and add current entries that people can actually buy today.

This is a good idea!

+1

Ciao

#10

Hello Andras, *,

I am not sure (a quick search at amazon.de, ebay.de and pearl.de
does not show up any of the above mentioned labels ... :frowning: ), but
normally I have seen parts of the product name translated in the
past (in the above examples this would be "CIL-W227
Diskettenlabel" or "CIL-W224 Audiokasette" (or something like
that). But if you look a little bit below, you will see the entry
"CIL-W228 CD Label for CD Labeller" (but it is also the case with
the brands "Avery A4", "Avery Lettersize" with entries like
"11251 Clear Label/Index Make Spine Label 1" or larger"), where
at least words like "for" or – in the last example – "or larger"
should be translatable ... :wink:

Or am I completely wrong here ;?

Did you notice that audio casettes and diskettes do not exist any
more? :slight_smile:

hm, maybe you (and your friends, family etc.) are too young for
them, but I as well other older people still own cassettes and
diskettes ... :wink: And I still know a couple of people, who prefer to
tape someone new music instead of burning them on CD ... :wink:

Naturally, there is a little interest from customers for
their labels.

Not really. They may not be demanded that much as – say – CDROMs or
the like, but I think, there is still a market for them ... :wink:

You found a problem, that there are untranslatable text in UI. But
the problem is deeper. We don't know whether this label set is of
any use today.

And it is really difficult to see, in which country they were sold
in the past ... :frowning: Some of the producers I have never ever heard of
... :frowning:

It was made in 90's, 15-20 years ago. It happened
definitely before the code opening in 2000, because half of the
label names are in German.

"Tower", "Avery A4", "Avery A4/Asia" and "Avery Letter Size" still
contain loads of English names for these labels ... :frowning:

It would be a good Easy Hack for a non-programmer, to download
catalogs of label makers, and update label.xml -- remove obsoleted
entries and add current entries that people can actually buy
today.

That may be an easy hack, but I think this would also be really time
consuming ... :frowning: Would it be possible then to split these by country
/ language and to provide them with the langpacks? Or would this be
impossible?
Thanks for your answer and have a nice evening
Thomas.

#11

Hi *,

[...]

It would be a good Easy Hack for a non-programmer, to download
catalogs of label makers, and update label.xml -- remove obsoleted
entries and add current entries that people can actually buy
today.

That may be an easy hack, but I think this would also be really time
consuming ... :frowning: Would it be possible then to split these by country
/ language and to provide them with the langpacks? Or would this be
impossible?

Well actually there is an easy hack bug https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70357 which I'm working on (unknowing that this bug existed) since September 2013! This is really a time consuming bug as I touched nearly evry page multiple times (by hand and with my bot)

So lengthy easy hacks aren't a problem, I think. Better create a bug and if needed we can split if requested.

Thanks for your answer and have a nice evening
Thomas.

Regards,

Dennis

#12

Hello Dennis, *,

[...]

It would be a good Easy Hack for a non-programmer, to download
catalogs of label makers, and update label.xml -- remove
obsoleted entries and add current entries that people can
actually buy today.

That may be an easy hack, but I think this would also be really
time consuming ... :frowning: Would it be possible then to split these by
country / language and to provide them with the langpacks? Or
would this be impossible?

Well actually there is an easy hack bug
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=70357 which I'm
working on (unknowing that this bug existed) since September 2013!
This is really a time consuming bug as I touched nearly evry page
multiple times (by hand and with my bot)

but that is wiki work, not downloading catalogs of all possible
labels and business cards producers around the world ... :wink:

So lengthy easy hacks aren't a problem, I think. Better create a
bug and if needed we can split if requested.

Maybe next weekend. I will not have the time before, sorry ... :frowning:
Have a nice evening
Thomas.

#13

Winfried,

Pls see the message below. Wasn't that something that you touched in the
past?

regards,
Cor

Thomas Hackert wrote (01-04-14 19:35)

#14

Hi Cor,

Yes, I did do work on the label.xml file and I occasionally update the file with new label definitions (mostly after users report bugs that QA people kindly bring to my attention).
Approx. 2 years ago I did a massive restructuring of the label definitions (there was a fundamental problem with the old definitions) and so had to check/redefine all 1700+ definitions. I did remove quite a lot of obsolete definitions, but had to be careful with that: obsolete doesn't mean that no users still use them (I have labels left from 30+ years ago).
Also, it is quite difficult (not to say impossible) to obtain lists of current labels with their size and position definitions. Generally, I have to download a Word template from which I then dig out the sizes and positions.
Also, there is a lot of necessary redundancy in the file. Take Avery, which uses different label numbers for the same labels, except for their colours (a label available in 6 colours has 6 entries in the file, because the user looks for a specific Avery number).

Adding new definitions is an easy hack, as the file contains explanations in the header about the entries.

Making the file language dependent would a lot of work; it might be better to use a separate list of locale descriptions (by means of string IDs) only. That way the label definitions can be maintained as part of the code (is it now) and the localisation goes the same as with the rest of LibreOffice (don't know the details, I just work on the code).

HTH,

Winfried