When will be a Web-Version of OOo/LO available?

users
#1

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Hello *,

since August 2011 I am experimenting with Cloud-Computing using 200 IBM
Severs (used) in total and searching for an Office Suit which can be
integrated into a Web-Interface.

The current Doc-Viewer is WebODF but it is realy limited. Now try to use
EtherPAD, but it is not realy what I like.

I have found an old announcement that OOo will be available as Web-App
and I like to know, whether it exist already and where the mailinglist
is.

Note: It seems the OOo guys will shutdown the OOo site and mailinglists

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

--
##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant ######################
   Development of Intranet and Embedded Systems with Debian GNU/Linux
               Internet Service Provider, Cloud Computing
                <http://www.itsystems.tamay-dogan.net/>

itsystems@tdnet Jabber linux4michelle@jabber.ccc.de
Owner Michelle Konzack

Gewerbe Strasse 3 Tel office: +49-176-86004575
77694 Kehl Tel mobil: +49-177-9351947
Germany Tel mobil: +33-6-61925193 (France)

USt-ID: DE 278 049 239

Linux-User #280138 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org/

#2

Hi :slight_smile:
Could Google-Docs be useful?  It is already Cloud-based and at the client end is used through a web-browser.

Wrt OpenOffice don't believe everything that people say.  There is a lot of confusion.  Until about 2 years ago it had been managed by Sun for about a decade along with a number of other OpenSource and other projects.  Then Oracle bought Sun but didn't seem to know what to do with OpenOffice and toyed with taking it in a few directions but none of them seemed to work.  Then Oracle started to give OpenOffice to an organisation they were having legal battles with, The Apache Foundation.  Apache have been pushing it through their incubation phase so although a lot of work has been going on it's not immediately obvious to anyone outside of Apache.  Apparently it is easy to find out more from Apache and get involved just as it's easy to join in with TDF and LibreOffice.

So, perhaps all that is happening is that the transfer of OpenOffice's assets is moving on a bit? 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#3

Hi Michelle,

I have found an old announcement that OOo will be available as Web-App
and I like to know, whether it exist already and where the mailinglist
is.

Note: It seems the OOo guys will shutdown the OOo site and mailinglists

I can't answer your question directly, but as far as OOo mailing lists are concerned, they are not all being shut down, some of them have actually been migrated to the Apache infrastructure. You should look up the OOo project under Incubation on the Apache project page if you want to subscribe to mailing lists there.

Alex

#4

The question about a "cloud" version of LO or OOo was the thread.
As for LO having one, well there is a lot of server side work and expense to produce a "cloud based" application.

As for how soon will there be a cloud app that is not so limiting, it is all in the economics of server side computing, which cloud-based apps mostly are. It is expensive to have a set of servers and bandwidth to host a package that does the computing for you, instead of your system doing its own work. These servers are usually owned by large companies that have the ability to either charge a "cloud" fee or have other income sources to cover the huge costs. How many servers would be needed to do the computing power for 1,000 people using a package like LibreOffice? How many would it be for 100,000? Who pays for these servers and all the electricity? Google Docs has a mega-company like Google to pay for the servers needed to do the online "cloud" computing needed to serve all its users. Small companies, or not-for-profit ones would never be able to afford to do the same thing.

As for some large company taking LO and making it a cloud app, they are free to do the work to do so. The key is how much need is there and how are they going to get their money back? MSO is now going cloud-based, but they have the money to do the work to make it work that way.

Personally, I do not like the idea of cloud based computing, for security reasons and ownership of files. If the connection to the Internet is down on your end or theirs, you do not have access to your data.

To be honest, I do not see a lot of people needing to use cloud-based computing, except for the Tablet market. I do not know about you, but I would not want to do much typing and such on one of those small things, so the need for a large package like LO accessible to a tablet via the "cloud" is not something that is high priority to many. Since you do most business/personal work via a laptop or desktop, and not a tablet, you would use the cloud for files, not computing. The does have an office package, but limited due to resources. The cloud computing version of an office package would be just as limited and slower that the one on a desktop/laptop system until the market will bare the expense of the resources for the server power. I think you would pay a lot of money every month to have a non-limited office suite based in the "cloud", or have a company like Google foot the bill.

#5

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:07:38 -0500, webmaster for Kracked Press
Productions <webmaster@krackedpress.com> wrote Re Re:
[libreoffice-users] Re: When will be a Web-Version of OOo/LO
available?:

Personally, I do not like the idea of cloud based computing, for
security reasons and ownership of files. If the connection to the
Internet is down on your end or theirs, you do not have access to your
data.

Excellent points.

The whole 1980s migration from central computers w/dumb terminals to
PCs was motivated in large part by the desire to spread the computing
load and sever the "umbilical cord/chain" that central mainframe
computers required. In most rural areas of the U.S. today, dial-up
modem is as good as it gets, and that won't facilitate the "cloud".

#6

I was part of the movement. I even saw PCs used as dumb terminals for a time with software like "Kermit" being used since it had the ability to upload/download the files to the central systems like we do with FTP clients and the web.

Yes, I know a lot of people who either can only get dial-up in their areas, or cannot afford the price for broadband. I am currently lucky to have broadband, but with a fixed income, and the fees going up for everything, I may not have it in the future. Or, I may keep it and drop my current digital phone system for some cheaper and less reliable one that is based off my PC or my purchased network device that does Internet phone calls.

So, if you want to use cloud computing and file storage, you better remain in the cities. In the more rural areas where people like to live to get away from the crowd, you are out of luck.

#7

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
Afaik there are no plans to make LibO into Cloud based apps. Recently there
was an announcement that work was starting on making LibreOffice available
to directly install on certain mobile devices but it is expected to take
months or years to complete. So, it's likely we would have noticed
something about going to the Cloud.

One of our supporters is Google and they already have an office suite that
is entirely Cloud based and which likes to use the same file-formats as
LibreOffice. So, on a tablet (or whatever) you can edit a document using
Google-docs that was originally created in LibreOffice, NeoOffice, Symphony
or even OpenOffice. Or create in Google-docs and then edit with LibreOffice
or whatever. Each project attempts to get closer and closer to the agreed
ODF standards that they drew-up together. If you use the older ODF
standard then MS Office 2007 & 2010 can happily edit too.

There is a portable version available at
http://portableapps.com/apps/office/libreoffice_portable
and/or
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/portable/
but this is to install LibreOffice on a usb-stick / memory card or whatever
so that you can use LibreOffice on any Windows machine without having to
install LO to machines that may not be completely under your control.
Useful for workplaces, cyber-cafes, showing off to friends etc etc.

So, there is a LOT of flexibility about ODF documents even tho LibO itself
is not making itself subject to the whims of internet connection speeds and
download/upload limits.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#8

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 10:35:51 -0500, webmaster for Kracked Press
Productions <webmaster@krackedpress.com> wrote Re Re:
[libreoffice-users] Re: When will be a Web-Version of OOo/LO
available?:

I was part of the movement. I even saw PCs used as dumb terminals for a
time with software like "Kermit" being used since it had the ability to
upload/download the files to the central systems like we do with FTP
clients and the web.

Yes indeed. I too ran from the tyrany of the mainframe as soon as I
was able. I have no desire to ever go back to giving a central site
custody of anything of mine that is important.

And I still have an old Kermit manual around here somewhere :slight_smile:

So, if you want to use cloud computing and file storage, you better
remain in the cities. In the more rural areas where people like to live
to get away from the crowd, you are out of luck.

Quite so.

#9

I will speak up a little for the positive case for cloud-based computing and apps. In the IT Manager position I recently left the motivator for looking at web apps was PEOPLE; specifically problems with our in-house people.

Making a long story short, I had built an entirely in-house M$ shop supported by people I hired plus occasional consulting especially for network / Cisco support. We had about 12 servers, 160 desktops, a very elaborate WAN, M$ Suite plus an in-house M$ WSUS for their flood of updates. The team was 3 people: myself, a sys admin and a desktop tech.

The workload was heavy and I relied on the motivation of the two hired staff to be learning M$ stuff toward becoming full M$ experts. The overall economics of in-house machines and fully burdened in-house staff made sense for a while.

The people problems started as competition between my two staff people. Productivity and teamwork began to stink; deadlines were flaunted; Helpdesk calls took longer. For a million different reasons (excuses) neither I nor the organization found a way to deal with the people problems. We had built in an addiction to in-house expertise and when our own people went sour nobody, myself included, had the cojones to correct it.

So we started to look at web apps. The economics were looking good. Buy more bandwidth, pay the monthly costs and get rid of at least 1 bad actor, maybe both! I left their employment mostly for personal reasons, a death in the family. But even so, "mostly" is the key word.

Six months later the organization has increased the bandwidth and (temporarily?) solved lots of WAN performance issues. The people problems and how to support the burden of M$ apps and their security issues remains unsolved. Status quo.

In summary, I agree with all the technical reasons and security concerns expressed about web / cloud apps. It was people-problems that blew down the house.

Upon reflection, this calls for LO to build a community of support people that can support small to medium sized businesses and avoid the siren call of M$ style big money and big ego. Good luck! No, seriously, good luck to us all.

#10

Personally I think the priority of a cloud suite is much less than ensuring
that there is absolutely no bugs while moving files between Microsoft and
LO, if a new user opens a .doc with a few tables, footer, header, TOC,
etc... in LO and sees that it doesn't look right, they'll abandon it
immediately and probably never look back. This is an unfortunate truth that
we are at, it'd be nice to actually have a bug list that is just
compatibility between Microsoft and LO. Just my two cents

#11

looking at web apps was PEOPLE; specifically problems with our in-house people.

Migrating to the cloud hides the people problem. It does not remove it.
For sensitive data, the cloud merely compounds the issues.

this calls for LO to build a community of support people that can support small to medium sized businesses and avoid the> siren call of M$ style big money and big ego.

More specifically, what is needed is more than a theoretical business
plan. A small, profitable organization (2-10 people) that provides paid
support for LibO to SOHO and SMB organizations that can "show" other
individuals and organizations the path:
* Tier 1 support;
* Tier 2 support;
* Tier 3 support;
* Tier 4 support;

# What each tier includes;
# How much to charge for each tier;
# Charging on a per incident basis;
# Contracts;
# Etc;

Does anybody know of anything along these lines, that was written
specifically for FLOSS support? The economics of FLOSS support, and
non-FLOSS support are very different.

jonathon

#12

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looking at web apps was PEOPLE; specifically problems with our in-house people.

Migrating to the cloud hides the people problem. It does not remove it.
For sensitive data, the cloud merely compounds the issues.

+1, my main complaint about the "Cloud" is that it is a marketing term and refers to using:
a, server data storage with client applications
b. server data storage with server applications.

The first is implemented by many companies to varying degrees, data and documents can be shared by using a server while individuals work on a local copy with applications on their computers. Depending on how the sharing and integration is set up you may only need occasional access to the data server. If the data server goes down, you may be able to continue working.

The second is basically a return to the mainframe with dumb terminals. Those of us old enough to remember those days tend to shudder at this regression (or more accurately stupidity). You are totally dependent on the server/mainframe and the connection in addition to any local problems. Server or connection goes down you are contemplating your navel. Another problem with this model is there are finite limits to the number connections and it is possible (not necessarily likely) to be locked out due to all the connections being in use. I work on an online application and we have limited administrative/vpn logins available and periodically all the connections are taken.

#13

looking at web apps was PEOPLE; specifically problems with our
in-house people.

Migrating to the cloud hides the people problem. It does not remove it.
For sensitive data, the cloud merely compounds the issues.

+1, my main complaint about the "Cloud" is that it is a marketing term
and refers to using:
a, server data storage with client applications
b. server data storage with server applications.

The first is implemented by many companies to varying degrees, data and
documents can be shared by using a server while individuals work on a
local copy with applications on their computers. Depending on how the
sharing and integration is set up you may only need occasional access to
the data server. If the data server goes down, you may be able to
continue working.

The second is basically a return to the mainframe with dumb terminals.
Those of us old enough to remember those days tend to shudder at this
regression (or more accurately stupidity). You are totally dependent on
the server/mainframe and the connection in addition to any local
problems. Server or connection goes down you are contemplating your
navel. Another problem with this model is there are finite limits to the
number connections and it is possible (not necessarily likely) to be
locked out due to all the connections being in use. I work on an online
application and we have limited administrative/vpn logins available and
periodically all the connections are taken.

this calls for LO to build a community of support people that can
support small to medium sized businesses and avoid the> siren call
of M$ style big money and big ego.

Good luck with that one. Firefox isn't making that much money, but they
are so wobbly, from trying to becoming THE 'platform', that I'm looking
for the next browser—Chrome isn't it, but the market share it is
devouring confirms that I'm not the only one that thinks Firefox is
risking a flaming-out trying to achieve orbit.

#14

Hi Michelle,

[...]
Hello *,

since August 2011 I am experimenting with Cloud-Computing using 200 IBM
Severs (used) in total and searching for an Office Suit which can be
integrated into a Web-Interface.

The current Doc-Viewer is WebODF but it is realy limited. Now try to use
EtherPAD, but it is not realy what I like.

I have found an old announcement that OOo will be available as Web-App
and I like to know, whether it exist already and where the mailinglist
is.

There is two questions / problems here:
1/ technical question: how to do that?
2/ bussiness question: who is able to and who want host such a service?

Question 1: work is in progress for LibreOffice as announced at
LibreOffice conference 2011 held in Paris. Please have a look at
LibreOffice Online prototype :
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/10/14/libreoffice-conference-announcements/

Question 2: as said at the conference, ATM, hosting such a service is
out of the mission and the means of TDF.

Best regards.
JBF

#15

Hello Tom Davies,

Am 2011-12-14 09:27:59, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

Hi :slight_smile:
Could Google-Docs be useful?

No, because most of my "business type" customers can not use it for
securty reason, speak: industrial spionage.

I am ongoing t setup a Cloud-WNetwork of moe then 200 Servers and coding
the stuff for my customers. So, I am looking for the good OSS pieces in
the "Net".

It is already Cloud-based and at the client end is used through a
web-browser.

Wrt OpenOffice don't believe everything that people say.  There is a
lot of confusion.  Until about 2 years ago it had been managed by Sun
for about a decade along with a number of other OpenSource and other
projects.  Then Oracle bought Sun but didn't seem to know what to do
with OpenOffice and toyed with taking it in a few directions but none
of them seemed to work.  Then Oracle started to give OpenOffice to an
organisation they were having legal battles with, The Apache
Foundation.  Apache have been pushing it through their incubation
phase so although a lot of work has been going on it's not immediately
obvious to anyone outside of Apache.  Apparently it is easy to find
out more from Apache and get involved just as it's easy to join in
with TDF and LibreOffice.

Right... and it seems there will be a Web-Version of LibereOffice and
some peoples told me, OOo will too.

Of course, I will be one of those, whih will actively test the products.

So, perhaps all that is happening is that the transfer of OpenOffice's
assets is moving on a bit? 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

#16

Hello webmaster for Kracked Press Productions,

Am 2011-12-14 10:07:38, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

As for how soon will there be a cloud app that is not so limiting,
it is all in the economics of server side computing, which
cloud-based apps mostly are. It is expensive to have a set of
servers

Since my "busiess type" customers have there own servers here...

and bandwidth

...and my WDM system (Transmode TS) in Kehl/Germany support up to
16 x 10GE and 32 x 1GE in parallel, bandwidth is the lesser problem.

(currently I have only 1x 10GE and 23x 1GE in 9 different locations)

to host a package that does the computing for
you, instead of your system doing its own work. These servers are
usually owned by large companies that have the ability to either
charge a "cloud" fee

Right, these are my existing customers demanding new solutions and of
course are willing to pay for additional services.

or have other income sources to cover the huge
costs. How many servers would be needed to do the computing power
for 1,000 people using a package like LibreOffice?

None of my customers (enterprises) will have more then 30 peoples using
it parallel. Maybe 50 could be in worst case, but thats nothing for a
well designed Server Software

How many would
it be for 100,000? Who pays for these servers and all the
electricity?

Meeeeee! Currently arround 12.800 Euro/Month. :smiley:

Since I am electonic engineer to, I develop a Low-Energy Server based on
multicore ARM Microcontrollers. Currently I use the Marvel Discovery
MV78200 (1200MHz Dual-Core; 2x PCIe 4x; 2x SAS Raid-5 Conteoller with up
8 drives each) and I am now waiting vor the new Multi-Core with 2.5 GHz.

Oh, multiple MV78200 are coupled over a PCIe bridge

Now imagine 8x SAS 300 GByte in Raid-5 with Hotfix = 1.8 TB of available
Diskspace plus the PCIe bridge and consuming normaly 20 Watt and in
worst case 40 Watt... Each additional Dual-Core µC Bard 6 watt more.

The new system save me more then 60% Energy

Google Docs has a mega-company like Google to pay for
the servers needed to do the online "cloud" computing needed to
serve all its users. Small companies, or not-for-profit ones would
never be able to afford to do the same thing.

Not true. The costs for Blade-Servers are VERY low.

Some of my customers (5-10 Employees) running on a MV78200 with two SAS
drives in Raid-1 and do not use the performance of the Blades to 20%.

Now imagine, the Blade-Racks are only 300mm depth not like the huge ISP
Server racks with 1100mm (e.g IBM Netfiny; have arround 250 eServes
Running)

Also my new datacenter in Kehl/Germany will have a 4.000 m² Solar Power
Plant on the roof...

The WHOLE datacenter is designed from scratch for this purpose.

Personally, I do not like the idea of cloud based computing, for
security reasons and ownership of files. If the connection to the
Internet is down on your end or theirs, you do not have access to
your data.

Hmmm, maybe you do not know HOW Cloud computing can work... :wink:

Cloud computing does not mean, you but a some million HDDs together to a
PetaByte Storage and let users store there data infinite.

Most of my customers do no wan this: Because of security reason.

The most important thing is, there data MUST be stored in THERE own
country which Google, Amazon and Apple can nor guarantee and of course,
these are US American enterpises and I hope you know the "Patriot Act".

Welcome in the world of industrial spionage...

This mean, application must work in the sense of "Own Cloud".

To be honest, I do not see a lot of people needing to use
cloud-based computing, except for the Tablet market.

This is one of main demands of my customers, which hold the amount of
users per server very low. As I have ready written normaly arround 30
and in worst case 50.

Since you do most business/personal work via a
laptop or desktop, and not a tablet, you would use the cloud for
files, not computing.

This depends on you business... If I worked as PMC, I used rugged
TabletPC and Laptops where we have only the bare minimum on it without
and data.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

#17

Hello David S. Crampton,

very well spoken!

Upon reflection, this calls for LO to build a community of support
people that can support small to medium sized businesses and avoid
the siren call of M$ style big money and big ego. Good luck! No,
seriously, good luck to us all.

Thats right. Clouds like Google, Amazon or Apple are NO SOLUTIONS!

Clud computing should be on a "per customer" base done.
This is what I do with my (arround 200) customers

Based on my new ARM-Based Blade Servers, the system is VERY scalable and
inexpensive. It is even cheaper as todays Root Servers at random ISP.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

#18

Hello M Robinson,

Am 2011-12-14 18:58:06, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

Good luck with that one. Firefox isn't making that much money, but they
are so wobbly, from trying to becoming THE 'platform', that I'm looking
for the next browser—Chrome isn't it, but the market share it is
devouring confirms that I'm not the only one that thinks Firefox is
risking a flaming-out trying to achieve orbit.

FullACK and 1+

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

#19

Hello Tom,

Am 2011-12-14 07:39:03, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

One of our supporters is Google and they already have an office suite that
is entirely Cloud based and which likes to use the same file-formats as
LibreOffice. So, on a tablet (or whatever) you can edit a document using
Google-docs that was originally created in LibreOffice, NeoOffice, Symphony
or even OpenOffice.

Is Google-Docs available as OSS?

Can you assure, your secret enterprise data will remain in YOUR COUNTRY
without being exposed to the NSA/CIA/DHS du to the "Patriot Act"? There
are already cases known, where some US-American three letter ORGs had
access to secret data of foreign enterprises (specialy german).

So, every one need his "Own Cloud" based on small scalable Blade Servers

There is a portable version available at
http://portableapps.com/apps/office/libreoffice_portable
and/or
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/portable/
but this is to install LibreOffice on a usb-stick / memory card or whatever
so that you can use LibreOffice on any Windows machine without having to
install LO to machines that may not be completely under your control.
Useful for workplaces, cyber-cafes, showing off to friends etc etc.

I hae a self made TabletPC based on the small Marvel Discoery MV78100
(1 GHz; Singel-Core, 1 GByte SO-DIMM) an installed Debian Wheeze/ARMEL.

So, I do not need any USB-Stick based crap.

So, there is a LOT of flexibility about ODF documents even tho LibO itself
is not making itself subject to the whims of internet connection speeds and
download/upload limits.

And for secuity reason? If you lost your device or become it stolen, it
can you cost very much money and maybe your enterprise. Are the data
you have on your device are recent and up-to-date?

Clouds and WebApps have there right to exist.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack

#20

Hello Jean-Baptiste Faure,

Am 2011-12-15 06:53:36, hacktest Du folgendes herunter:

There is two questions / problems here:
1/ technical question: how to do that?
2/ bussiness question: who is able to and who want host such a service?

Question 1: work is in progress for LibreOffice as announced at
LibreOffice conference 2011 held in Paris. Please have a look at
LibreOffice Online prototype :
http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2011/10/14/libreoffice-conference-announcements/

I know in the mentime

Question 2: as said at the conference, ATM, hosting such a service is
out of the mission and the means of TDF.

Meeeee :smiley: on the demand of my customers!

Best regards.
JBF

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack