Why are the people who answer users' questions are not getting counted?

users
#1

On the "Projects" list, there is a link to the claiming of badges.

One thing I saw was the fact that people who help others in this list is not counted for claiming badges. I do not use "Ask LibreOffice", yet, that is the only place to help users if you want to claim a badge. As I said, I do not use Ask LibreOffice, just the email list service. There are a lot people here that help users.  I do not know how many of these users are answering these questions over the ones who answering on Ask LibreOffice.

If only the people using Ask LibreOffice get recognized for helping others, it seems to me that people who help others on this list are not counted as helping others.  Are these lists no longer the place to help users and will be dropped soon? That is the only way I can get my head around the fact that the helpers are not counted in the "badge page" https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Badges/2017-11

#2

I also do not use Ask Libreoffice

But i do have (some) badges... ( 1gold, 1silver, 3 bronze)

But, most important question, what can i do with those badges???

BTW the link to 'Ask LibreOffice' is: https://ask.libreoffice.org

#3

It's a crappy site anyways, because my username does not show here:

https://ask.libreoffice.org/nl/users/?sort=name&page=4

#4

Mike,

this is all yours :wink:

Stuart

#5

Interesting: I had no idea this even existed.

Blessings, Joe

#6

Hi :slight_smile:
There is nothing new in this.

People providing User Support or Technical Support through these mailing
lists have never been recognised as being a useful part of TDF or the
LibreOffice community.

Similarly the Documentation Team and some others get no recognition nor
support from TDF.

So there is no reason to expect any of these mailing lists to close or
change at all.

I don't know why the Ask 'Bot' thing is different. It was a new and
'trendy' thing that users were allegedly finding much more normal and
easier to use. Many of the people doing the actual work of answering
questions found it painful because there was no way for them to chat or
help each other out so it was difficult to build-up team spirit or learn
from each other and so on. So it's a very desolate and isolating system
that is not much fun for volunteers.

Another advantage here is that we sometimes get feedback on the quality of
our answers or on how well we welcomed people in to the community or
whatnot.

I get the impression that this mailing-list is more rewarding without
needing some fake points system to rate us and to potentially create
divisions and stuff like that. I guess the AskBot needs the points&badges
system because it's the only feedback they can get.

Regards from
a Tom :slight_smile:

#7

Hi Tom,

I prefer the email-based mailing list because I get all the messages posted. From my experience on web-based forums, I will get, maybe, one email message about a new thread and then nothing. With them, I must keep polling the website and searching for new threads and/or messages regularly. It's a pain. I'm sorry, I don't have time for that. So I keep using this email list forum. It is more convenient for me.

As far as the recognition goes, this thread is the first I heard of any "rewards" for posting help for user problems. I don't expect any reward for my help to others. My reward is helping others as payback for all the help I got in the past and future from this forum.

Girvin Herr

#8

Hi Tom,

Hi :slight_smile:
There is nothing new in this.

People providing User Support or Technical Support through these mailing
lists have never been recognised as being a useful part of TDF or the
LibreOffice community.

Which is not true, this is one of the most important missions for TDF to
recognize the work done in all the areas of the LO and DLP projects.

Similarly the Documentation Team and some others get no recognition nor
support from TDF.

Why Olivier has been contracted then? He is helping and welcoming each
person working there, doing a great job on developing and enhancing the
project.

So there is no reason to expect any of these mailing lists to close or
change at all.

Again why do you asserts that?

I don't know why the Ask 'Bot' thing is different. It was a new and
'trendy' thing that users were allegedly finding much more normal and
easier to use. Many of the people doing the actual work of answering
questions found it painful because there was no way for them to chat or
help each other out so it was difficult to build-up team spirit or learn
from each other and so on. So it's a very desolate and isolating system
that is not much fun for volunteers.

I don't use ask, only doing moderation on it, but the fact that it give
credits to the users there was one of the most important feature to
choose it.

Another advantage here is that we sometimes get feedback on the quality of
our answers or on how well we welcomed people in to the community or
whatnot.

I get the impression that this mailing-list is more rewarding without
needing some fake points system to rate us and to potentially create
divisions and stuff like that. I guess the AskBot needs the points&badges
system because it's the only feedback they can get.

Their are some areas on the project where it's very difficult to reward
the contributors, we are aware of it. It's also the case for example for
the l10n team where Pootle doesn't reflect external contributions.

@all, so to be positive, what could be and should be the way to count
people giving support on all the users' mailing lists in the project?
Nabble could give some help and I'll see with Mike if it's possible to
integrate it to his badge system. Would there be other ways or other
area that seems to be not supported?

Cheers
Sophie

#9

Hi Tim, and everyone else who helps out on the list,

First of all, thanks very much for your contributions and assistance
here! You weren't being deliberately ignored at all -- I just have a
specific list of data sources that I use for awarding the stickers in
the Month of LibreOffice:

https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Month_of_LibreOffice#Data_sources

The idea is that the sources are quick and easy to check, so I can
update the wiki page at the start of each day without spending hours
poring through data. For the "Answering questions from users" section, I
simply hadn't considered this users@ list -- so that's my fault. But
again, it's nothing deliberate, and I will add this to the data sources
for the next Month of LibreOffice:

https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/

Thanks for understanding, and if anyone who's active here in helping
users wants a sticker, simply send me an email with your address and
I'll put one in the post! And thanks again for your work :slight_smile:

Cheers,
Mike

#10

hello.
if people dont count us between helpers, forget our goodness and dont
give us reward,
be sure that God knows everything, count us and reward us for our good deeds!
and God gives his servants the best reward!
i sincerely pray for developers, programmers, users, and supporters of
libreoffice and any softwares which i have.
i request divine infinite mercy and blessings for you all!

#11

Hi :slight_smile:
+1
and +1 to Girvin's point about wanting to repay, or "pay it forward" for
the help I've been given or continue to get.

I really like this mailing list and the people on it. There are a lot of
good people giving good answers, welcoming people in and encouraging debate
and chats - and occasionally "mentioning" other LO teams that might be
interesting to get involved with.

I don't know how it might be possible to quantify or rank the different
types of contributions made by the different types of posts.

It might be easier if answers could be "up voted" or marked as having
answered the question, and that might help people searching through the
archives to solve a specific question but that only deals with a very
narrow range of what makes this mailing list so great. I don't think it'd
be possible to quantify the other aspects.

The Documentation Team has kinda transformed a lot in the last couple of
years but I still think the main advantage of getting involved with it is
how much you learn by being involved and getting to know the people
involved there as colleagues.

Regards from
a Tom :slight_smile:

#12

Hi, Sophie,

(better late than never)

@all, so to be positive, what could be and should be the way to count
people giving support on all the users' mailing lists in the project?
Nabble could give some help and I'll see with Mike if it's possible to
integrate it to his badge system. Would there be other ways or other
area that seems to be not supported?

I'm often wondering what this badge/reward thing is all about. Who cares ? My contribution to mailing lists is not meant for any reward at all. If a user wants to say "thanks", so be it, that's all. Second, I'm more often than once asking myself for help here and there. I'm glad to get answers and to say thanks (even though I happen to forget...), so answering to others is just a return from the help I've got before.

Again, this badging thing is beyond me. I see no need for TDF to lose time and energy in this area.

YMMV

Best,

#13

Hi Jean-François,

Hi, Sophie,

(better late than never)

@all, so to be positive, what could be and should be the way to count
people giving support on all the users' mailing lists in the project?
Nabble could give some help and I'll see with Mike if it's possible to
integrate it to his badge system. Would there be other ways or other
area that seems to be not supported?

I'm often wondering what this badge/reward thing is all about. Who cares
? My contribution to mailing lists is not meant for any reward at all.
If a user wants to say "thanks", so be it, that's all. Second, I'm more
often than once asking myself for help here and there. I'm glad to get
answers and to say thanks (even though I happen to forget...), so
answering to others is just a return from the help I've got before.

This is your own position, but it's not what the majority of people think :slight_smile:

Again, this badging thing is beyond me. I see no need for TDF to lose
time and energy in this area.

Some contributors are really happy with their badges, this is not a TDF
work, but it's done by the ASK bot.

What Mike is doing is different, he his prominently displaying the names
of the contributors and send them (if they want) a sticker to thank them
for their contributions. And I've seen many of the contributors happy
and proud with their stickers, there is a fair collection of their
feedback on the social media.

Cheers
Sophie

#14

Glad if people are glad!

Obviously the YMMV is really variable. But I stand with my own opinion :wink:

All the best,