Does Libre Office have its own distinct set of fonts?

users
#1

I am wondering if Libre Office has a separate set of fonts from the operating
system, or at least some of the fonts.

I'll explain my problem.

If I have a look at Character Map to find a character that I want (let's say
it is an aeroplane), I can find it in the Webdings font (Unicode 00d2, or
Ò). See screenshot 1:

<http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4039236/Character_Map.png>

But when I use that character in Libre Office and set the font to Webdings,
it shows a different character, specifically an in-box. See screenshot 2:

<http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/file/n4039236/Libre_Office_characters.png>

Note that not all characters do this. For example, the first 52 characters
(A-Z and a-z) are correct.

I would like to know how to solve this discrepancy, so that I can search for
characters in Character Map (or an equivalent program) and then use them in
Libre Office. (I have tried an alternative program, Specimen Font Viewer,
and it shows the same thing as Character Map.)

I am using Linux Ubuntu 12.04 (64-bit, fully updated) with Libre Office
4.0.0.3 (installed directly from the Libre Office website).

Thank you.

#2

Hi Paddy

Webdings is a M$ font, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webdings
and is not Unicode.

If you use Unicode characters, e.g. U+2708 for an aeroplane (:airplane:) it should render consistently, substituting a character from a font that has it if the current font does not (if you have a suitable font installed).

#3

My 12.04 shows a list of fonts at
/opt/libreoffice4.0/share/fonts/truetype/

They are mostly "DejaVu" and "Liberation" fonts but there are others listed as well.

I made sure the fonts listed there were also listed in the /.fonts/ hidden folder. that way I had the same fonts for all my packages.

#4

jowyta wrote

Webdings is a M$ font, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webdings
and is not Unicode.

Yes, the font is not Unicode; the font is merely the way to display a
character. The character is Ò (Unicode D2), but the Webdings font displays
it as an aeroplane rather than as a capital O with an accent on top.

The Webdings font is installed on my machine.

Unfortunately, this doesn't answer the question; why is Libre Office using
the wrong character for the font?

krackedpress wrote

My 12.04 shows a list of fonts at
/opt/libreoffice4.0/share/fonts/truetype/

They are mostly "DejaVu" and "Liberation" fonts but there are others
listed as well.

I saw those, but none of them is the Webdings font. On reading your reply, I
tried adding those fonts to the /usr/share/fonts folder, but after
refreshing the font cache, it still made no difference.

There is definitely something odd happening, and I can't figure out what it
is.

#5

I was recently looking at Mint, a derivative of Ubuntu, and I was appalled at the paucity of fonts. "Liberation" is ugly! You need to find a good
set of True-Type fonts and install them. Then you can have, for example, Times-Roman. And most of the odd-ball ones that you might use
once in your life-time. I copied the entire fonts directory from PCLOS and replaced the one in Mint. But I think you can get True-Type from
Microsoft, free. Not sure how you do that--Google's your friend.

--doug

#6

I think it is a question of what you define as "wrong". LibreOffice uses Unicode and will correctly display Unicode characters in any font that includes the character.

The allocation of character codes to Webdings does not seem to be consistent and I have been unable to find an authoritative list. I have Webdings installed (it comes with ttf-mscorefonts via Debian). In my case the Ò character also displays as an inbox tray character using Webdings, the Webding aeroplane character code does not seem to display anything in other fonts.

So I think the answer to this question is that what LibreOffice displays depends on which Webdings font you have installed on your machine. The font is not part of LibreOffice.

I think the answer to solving the discrepancy is to stick to Unicode fonts which should be consistent across all systems.

#7

I have seen this issue with same font name but different font. I have two fonts that call themselves Garamond but look different side by side. Then there are the fonts that are touted to be the same, with the same file name, but are different depending on where it came from or even the version from the same font designer. That is why I have over 100,000 of them and many with the same name.

Now, if you really need a character glyph, that is not a letter, to be the same between systems, make it an image and use that and not a font. 99 times out of 100, the receiver of the document will not have your "specialty font" installed or even the same version installed, so their document will look different. That is why I never send editable documents to a person that I know might not have the EXACT font[s] that I am using. I do not even use Export to PDF, but CUPS-PDF. I know CUPS-PDF will embed the font but I do not know if Export to PDF will embed the more "specialty" ones. I just have not compared all my fonts since 3.4 days with a system that does not have my "core" 400+ font files - most versions/styles of/for font names like DejaVu and other ones that I may use a lot and the others are very specialty ones that are used for decorative needs.

#8

Thank you all for your responses. It is helping me to learn more.

doug-2 wrote

I was recently looking at Mint … You need to find a good set of True-Type
fonts and install them.

As jowyta wrote, install ttf-mscorefonts-installer (it comes with the Ubuntu
repositories, which you should have as Mint is derived from Ubuntu).

jowyta wrote

So I think the answer to this question is that what LibreOffice displays
depends on which Webdings font you have installed on your machine. The
font is not part of LibreOffice.

That's what I would have thought, which is why am confused; Libre Office is
/not/ displaying the same characters as are installed.

jowyta wrote

I think the answer to solving the discrepancy is to stick to Unicode fonts
which should be consistent across all systems.

Yes, it is looking that way.

krackedpress wrote

I have seen this issue with same font name but different font.

I've searched my machine, but I have only one copy of Webdings, so that
doesn't seem to be the problem.

krackedpress wrote

… if you really need a character glyph, that is not a letter, to be the
same between systems, make it an image and use that and not a font.

I think that this is the lesson that I have learned from this thread!

krackedpress wrote

That is why I never send editable documents to a person that I know might
not have the EXACT font[s] that I am using.

Yes, I do that too.

krackedpress wrote

I do not even use Export to PDF, but CUPS-PDF. I know CUPS-PDF will embed
the font but I do not know if Export to PDF will embed the more
"specialty" ones.

Export as PDF will embed non-standard fonts by default, but not the 14
standard Postscript fonts. However, Export as PDF has an option, "Embed
standard fonts", which will embed all fonts used in the document:

https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Export_as_PDF#Embed_standard_fonts

This makes "Export as PDF" safe to use. (Note that it includes only the
characters that are used, so you can't depend on this for PDFs with forms to
fill in.)

As an experiment, I created a document with the Webdings font and the
character Ò (i.e. the in-box), exported as PDF (without the "Embed standard
fonts" option), and copied that to a Windows machine. The Windows machine
showed the PDF the same as on Linux Ubuntu.

Looking further, I see that somehow Libre Office is using the Character Map
that is on Windows, not on Ubuntu. I.e., this is in agreement with jowyta,
who says:

jowyta wrote

The allocation of character codes to Webdings does not seem to be
consistent and I have been unable to find an authoritative list.

How Libre Office does this, I do not know! It must have the Webdings built
in somewhere, but hidden.

Although my question has not been answered, I shall take this as resolved:
the resolution is to prefer images to image-fonts.

Thank you again everyone for your answers.

#9

The wording of "embed standard fonts" is my problem. What does LO mean by a "standard font". Many of my fonts are not anywhere near "standard". The last time I used Export to PDF, not all of the fonts I used were embedded, but only a selected few. If it will embed ALL of the specialized and decorative fonts I may use in a document - think holidays and other things that are no where near business related - then it would be useful. The only real time I Export to PDF is when I create a PDF file of a landscape orientation document. CUPS-PDF creates portrait ones only, so far as I can determine. That was a few versions ago. Since CUPS-PDF is my default "printer" I tend to use it instead of Exporting to PDF. I use this for my web page and email printouts so I do not waste paper printing pages that I do not need.

AS for character not on the keyboard, I use the Insert Special Character option and browse through the different fonts to select the correct glyph that I need. Yes, I have looked at both "Garamond" normal/roman I have installed and they have some different glyphs beyond the "standard" keyboard characters/glyphs. The same "character number" having different glyphs. Same name but different glyphs included. Right now, I looking at my font list and will start removing some of these "double" fonts and see about keeping the better versions of them.

#10

krackedpress wrote

The wording of "embed standard fonts" is my problem.

Yes. I tried to find out what LO meant by that; all I can find is that it
refers to 14 Postscript fonts.

krackedpress wrote

The last time I used Export to PDF, not all of the fonts I used were
embedded… If it will embed ALL of the specialized and decorative fonts I
may use in a document - think holidays and other things that are no where
near business related - then it would be useful.

Do a test. Create a small document using a number of your specialised fonts
and their characters (plus one or more standard fonts such as Times New
Roman). Then:

1. Export as PDF, but do not check "Embed standard fonts". Call this PDF1.
2. Export as PDF again, but this time check "Embed standard fonts". Call
this PDF2.

You will notice that PDF1 is smaller than PDF2. Copy these PDF files to a
separate machine (preferably with a different operating system). View the
PDFs. You should find that both PDF1 and PDF2 display perfectly, unless
there is a discrepancy between the standard fonts. I will be happy to test
for you on both Ubuntu and Windows if you attach the PDFs to a reply.

krackedpress wrote

… I use the Insert Special Character option and browse through the
different fonts to select the correct glyph that I need.

That didn't even occur to me! I have just tried it, and it works perfectly.
Thank you; this is my solution (if not the answer to why it is like that)!

#11

I wish you well in finding an answer to your question re. fonts.

       I've been wondering re. a similar issue pertaining to fonts -
            on this present computer, all the script-fonts seem to be
missing;
                 I wish I knew how to retrieve these from the past since I
really liked using some of these.

I am wondering if Libre Office has a separate set of fonts from the

#12

Then how does one get these new ones into the programs for use?

#13

anne-ology wrote

I've been wondering re. a similar issue pertaining to fonts - on this
present computer, all the script-fonts seem to be missing;
I wish I knew how to retrieve these from the past since I really liked
using some of these.

You really need to start a new thread for your question, as it is not
pertinent to this thread. In your new thread, provide more information,
including what operating system you are using, what you mean by
"script-fonts", and how you know that they are missing.

#14

        Then how does one get these new ones into the programs for use?

As you quoted me before, you weren't reading what I said: put the
ffonts in the font directory of your distro. they should then be
available for any program on the machine, including LO. That's
just what I did on the Mint installation. AAMOF, I deleted all
the crap fonts that were on the machine--Liberation and a
whole batch of Asian fonts in languages I couldn't even recognize--
and just dumped in a whole directory of usable fonts--probably
True-Type, supplied on another distro that wasn't so damned PC.

--doug

#15

Thank you for responding;
            but I haven't the foggiest idea what you've said.

       the font directory of the distro ??? ... AAMOF ???

       I would really enjoy getting rid of all those 'junk' fonts ... and
finding then dropping in the good ones;
            but I haven't a clue as to how to so do.

       ok, it's probably some simple step to locate these then drop them
into whatever folder ...
            but 'the more I learn of these glorified typewriters, the
stupider I feel' :wink: :wink: :wink:

#16

distro: the operating system on your computer (Windows, Linux, OS X, etc.)
      AAMOF: as far as my other fonts
The latter is a "guess" but it seems logical. So, if you would tell us one more time, what is your operating system. That will tell us the location of your font folder or folders.

--Dan

#17

       Thank you for responding;
            but I haven't the foggiest idea what you've said.

       the font directory of the distro ??? ... AAMOF ???

       I would really enjoy getting rid of all those 'junk' fonts ... and finding then dropping in the good ones;
            but I haven't a clue as to how to so do.

       ok, it's probably some simple step to locate these then drop them into whatever folder ...
            but 'the more I learn of these glorified typewriters, the stupider I feel' :wink: :wink: :wink:

AAMOF=as a matter of fact

You will find a bunch of directories labelled fonts. You want one that has a list of
fonts showing as subdirectories. In my distro (pclos) they're in /usr/share:

[doug@linux1 fonts]$ ls -la
total 184
drwxr-xr-x 17 root root 4096 Feb 19 00:22 ./
drwxr-xr-x 266 root root 12288 Feb 22 12:04 ../
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 98304 Jun 8 2011 100dpi/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 75dpi/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 cyrillic/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Sep 22 2011 default/
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 encodings/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Feb 22 12:07 java/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 20480 Jun 8 2011 misc/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 OTF/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 Speedo/
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Feb 19 00:22 truetype/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Aug 20 2012 ttf/
drwxr-xr-x 4 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 TTF/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 8 2011 Type1/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Jun 12 2011 ubuntu/
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 4096 Oct 16 2010 webcore/

Notice the names: three sets of true-types, a type 1, even
cyrillic, if you happen to use Russian! All of the Latin letters
can be modified with accent marks, etc. if you make a
compose key. You'll also have some signs, like EUR, ¢, ?,
½, ¼, ß (German ess-tset) and whatever.

I thought I saw, somewhere in this thread, someone who
told where to get the Microsoft fonts--these are True-Tupe,
or ttf, and have the kind of fonts you want so as to look
professional in whatever you write. BTW, do _not_
remove the old font directory without having one at
hand to replace it with, because if you do, there will be
absolutely _nothing_ readable in any program! As I
have said, all the programs on the system use the
fonts in that font directory. There might be one or two
exceptions, but more likely not. You don't have to
remove the old font directory--you can just drop the
new fonts in with the old, and you'll just have a bigger
list to choose from. I dumped it, because I thought the
existing ones in Mint were basically useless.
If you have a search routine in your email, search for ms,
I think that's the abbreviation the previous poster used,
when telling how to get Microsoft fonts. They're free, you
don't have to buy them.

Hope that helps. --doug

#18

WIN7

     distro: the operating system on your computer (Windows, Linux, OS X,

#19

Thanks!!!

#20

For the Windows users, and the Linux users, you really should use the font install procedures.

For Windows, there should be a font listing in its Control Panel and a way to install fonts there.

For Ubuntu users, all you have to do in click on the font and it should open the font installation window with the "install" button. That way you can see the font before you install it. I like that better than "dumping" the font into the hidden ".fonts" folder. This is mostly the fonts you install after the fact and not ones installed by the OS.

If you are never going to use any non-English language, then do this. . .

Open LibreOffice and scroll down the list of fonts in the font drop-box in the "formatting" toolbar.

Look at the fonts that have a name on the left and glyphs on the right. This will show for "dinbats" and icon based fonts. ALSO it will show you glyphs for the non-English/non-Latin style of fonts.

Think Arabic or an Asian language.

At that point, write down all of the font names that have these fonts you do not want. Then go to a package that has a font viewer and search for the fonts, if the is no file name that matches. I have a bunch of fonts like that.

To be honest, there are other places that hold the fonts for Ubuntu, so you will have to search for then. BE CAREFUL not to remove any folders or delete them permanently since you might have removed a needed for for one of your packages. My install of Ubuntu has many Middle Eastern and Asian fonts installed by default, even though I use English for my language. I may remove most of them someday, but it will be a slow process so I do not make any mistakes. If you use Ubuntu, use the Software Center and look at the font packages installed. Then remove those that are not part of your language, like India or Arabic for English.