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I've been reading the different pages of the Document Foundation, and am
wondering about the two programs in the subject line.
Are there any differences between the two programs?
Some differences not many at the moment but the gap is increasing. LibreOffice
is developing faster and adds more features such as svg (scalable vector
graphics) support and pdf editing in Draw. Many people do work in both projects
but OpenOffice is much more reluctant to add developments. LibreOffice has a
portable and cloud based version, OpenOffice doesn't.
Regards from
Tom 
Thanks, Tom.
I'll stick with Libre Office, then, for both my Mac and PC machine.
I only signed up with this LO mailing list a week ago, and I need a
suggestion.
Where is the best place to join to express why I will NOT recommend Libre
Office to my friends? My issues generally apply to all open source
software, not just Libre Office.
Ken
What is the name of the LibreOffice cloud-based version?
Tom Davies wrote (03-02-11 19:07)
LibreOffice has a portable and cloud based version, OpenOffice doesn't.
Wrong. Oracle has a cloud office version, working with ODF.
Good change that LibreOffice / The Document Foundation will find the cloud too, but at the moment? No.
Regards,
Cor
...
Where is the best place to join to express why I will NOT recommend Libre
Office to my friends? My issues generally apply to all open source
software, not just Libre Office.
I do just the opposite. I would love to hear why you do not recommend
FOSS to your friends?
Best,
-Tom
Thomas M. Browder, Jr.
Niceville, Florida
USA
Hi , Tom,
Likewise, I used to encourage the use of open source software also. And on
a personal level, I always try to find an open source program for my use.
And my issue is not with the software itself. Even though my impression is
the software is sometimes slightly buggier, the problems seem to be when
using advanced functions. And a function I don't think the average user is
likely to attempt.
It's user support where things fall flat on it's face. I only have one
person in my family and friends who would even have a clue as to how to
utilize a mailing list. It's way too cumbersome and clunky for the people I
know. Even I had trouble figuring this one out! LOL
There are a lot of users out there, I believe, that could make use of open
source software, but these people usually don't even understand
directories/folders, partitioning, the very basics of using a computer.
When I start to talk to them about disk cleanup and defragging (Windows),
you should see the blank faces I encounter.
But surprisingly, some of them have figured out how to use forums. Even
thought a lot of the forums have very nice editors, the fourms seem to be
lousy when it comes to instructions on how to use the editor. The Open
Office forum editor has the /list commands, but how my average people will
know anything about using HTML commands? I will own up to not looking for
instructions, but there's also no link to instructions that I've spotted.
Searching the help info tends to be a PITA. If you want to see a place
where help has really gone downhill, check Microsoft! LOL MS is where I
always went to seek help, especially the knowledge base link. I can't find
that link anymore. 
So now my first choices are Google and Ask.com.
As a friend of mine observed years ago when MS stopped providing manuals and
introduced online help, "What good is online help if you can't get online?"
It's still a valid point today, as I still have not come in contact with a
computer user that was born with basic computer knowledge.
My personal preference would be a forum that's available through both a
browser and a newsreader. I would actually use a newsreader, as I do not
have DSL nor unlimited data download, and a browser/forum combination is a
resource hog. And like the new Verizon vs. iPhone/ATT commercials, I
do pay more for less.
I have LB on Mac, Vista, and XP, and will continue to use it. But, until
help is easier to obtain online, I can't, in good conscience, recommend
using open source software in a general sense. I will tell them about it,
but I will also tell them that accessing help is not always easy for the
average user.
And additional observation that seems to apply to all software providers
these days, is they seem to assume, when it comes to their help files, users
are at the junior high level, and completely ignore the elementary level
users. Not to mention many help files basically suck. They seem to
tell you that you can do X, but don't bother to tell you how to do X.
No one seems to view their product through the eyes of a beginner or simply
new to their product.
Time to go shovel out, and head for my Mac user group meeting! LOL
Ken
:
It's user support where things fall flat on it's face. I only have one
person in my family and friends who would even have a clue as to how to
utilize a mailing list. It's way too cumbersome and clunky for the people I
know. Even I had trouble figuring this one out! LOL
Thank you for that long and thorough description of what is wrong with
(most) help features around. While I have been around for a long time
and am fairly good at finding what I don't already know how to do, the
help files and forums are not intuitively obvious to the average
computer user (what I used to refer to as idiots, but I try to avoid
that word in this regard) and even sometimes to advanced old-timers
like me.
That said, I encourage people to use FOSS because it is generally much
higher quality than that paid junk and *I will shepherd them
personally through any support or help issues they find, and I am
happy to do so. Depriving others of access to FOSS does them a
disservice, whereas helping them learn about how to find what they
need to know elevates them beyond the base level beginner and sets
them on the road to competence.
You keep up your good work and I'll do mine, too. Onward, LibreOffice!
Hi , Tom,
...
Likewise, I used to encourage the use of open source software also. And on
a personal level, I always try to find an open source program for my use.And my issue is not with the software itself. Even though my impression is
the software is sometimes slightly buggier, the problems seem to be when
using advanced functions. And a function I don't think the average user is
likely to attempt.It's user support where things fall flat on it's face. I only have one
person in my family and friends who would even have a clue as to how to
utilize a mailing list. It's way too cumbersome and clunky for the people I
know. Even I had trouble figuring this one out! LOL
...
Well, I appreciate your concerns, which are valid. But I think you
are throwing out the baby with the bathwater.
A couple of points:
1. A hybrid system like google groups where you can read a forum
online or communicate via e-mail (almost like an RSS feed) might be an
answer to the e-mail problem. I much prefer e-mail. I'm new to this
list. Has anyone filed a feature request for such a thing?
2. Twice I have presented a one-hour talk on FOSS at our local annual
"Computer Tech" seminars hosted by the Northwest Florida Association
of Computer User Groups. It has been well-attended. The first part
of my talk, before I get into my recs for software and resources, is:
a. how to find help yourself
The main point here is that not many people will help you (at
least not for long) if you don't learn how to read and find out the
basics on your own. It applies to Windows users as well as Linux
users.
b. how to handle e-mail and forums etiquette-wise
I point them to the Code of Etiquette for Ubuntu (there are other
sources around, I haven't seen one here yet).
And I have found that Linux help is much better than Windows help,
especially if you stay away from those help forums that are kind of in
the "wild" and are populated by inexperienced users (lots of
misinformation gets passed around out there).
Best,
-Tom
The problem with "Cloud" systems is that when you do not have
reliable access to the Internet, it is no good or even very bad,
when you need to get access to your documents. I have a laptop
that I use allot when I have to do work outside my place, and most
of the time I do not have any Internet access, WiFi or Phone, where
I have to do my typing. Cloud is not where I want to be and not
where I want my data to be.
...
The problem with "Cloud" systems is that when you do not have
reliable access to the Internet, it is no good or even very bad,
...
I have to do my typing. Cloud is not where I want to be and not
where I want my data to be.
Amen, brother!
-Tom
Hi
I thought this
http://portableapps.com/apps/office/libreoffice_portable
worked on the Cloud?
Regards from
Tom
Hi
I am not sure many people have thought about what the Cloud really means. I too
am deeply suspicious of it. However it does seem to be about the latest buzz so
it's worth watching out for it.
Regards from
Tom
Oh, i thought this link was the portable LibreOffice?
http://portableapps.com/apps/office/libreoffice_portable
I could easily have been misled tho. It is a Windows-only solution so i haven't
been able to try it.
Regards from
Tom
Hi , Tom,
Likewise, I used to encourage the use of open source software also. And on
a personal level, I always try to find an open source program for my use.And my issue is not with the software itself. Even though my impression is
the software is sometimes slightly buggier, the problems seem to be when
using advanced functions. And a function I don't think the average user is
likely to attempt.It's user support where things fall flat on it's face. I only have one
person in my family and friends who would even have a clue as to how to
utilize a mailing list. It's way too cumbersome and clunky for the people I
know. Even I had trouble figuring this one out! LOL
That's hard to believe. Mailing lists are dead simple assuming the
ability to read with comprehension. You're only correct if your
definition of user support is individual personal hand holding.
There are a lot of users out there, I believe, that could make use of open
source software, but these people usually don't even understand
directories/folders, partitioning, the very basics of using a computer.
When I start to talk to them about disk cleanup and defragging (Windows),
you should see the blank faces I encounter.
Little of this is necessary to use the GUI (graphical user interface).
But surprisingly, some of them have figured out how to use forums. Even
thought a lot of the forums have very nice editors, the fourms seem to be
lousy when it comes to instructions on how to use the editor. The Open
Office forum editor has the /list commands, but how my average people will
know anything about using HTML commands?
What HTML commands are needed to use an editor?
I will own up to not looking for
instructions, but there's also no link to instructions that I've spotted.
Not looking for instructions is your own fault.
Searching the help info tends to be a PITA.
Using a search engine is a PITA?
If you want to see a place
where help has really gone downhill, check Microsoft! LOL MS is where I
always went to seek help, especially the knowledge base link. I can't find
that link anymore.
If M$ online support is in the toilet and you don't recommend OSS, what
do you recommend to new users? *gasp* MAC?
Again, why is using these search engines a PITA? Do you expect to find
information without expending any effort?
As a friend of mine observed years ago when MS stopped providing manuals and
introduced online help, "What good is online help if you can't get online?"
It's still a valid point today, as I still have not come in contact with a
computer user that was born with basic computer knowledge.
Do they have access to libraries?
My personal preference would be a forum that's available through both a
browser and a newsreader. I would actually use a newsreader, as I do not
have DSL nor unlimited data download, and a browser/forum combination is a
resource hog.
do pay more for less.I have LB on Mac, Vista, and XP, and will continue to use it. But, until
help is easier to obtain online, I can't, in good conscience, recommend
using open source software in a general sense. I will tell them about it,
but I will also tell them that accessing help is not always easy for the
average user.
So, because information isn't as easy to find as *you* think it should
be, you will discourage new users from trying OSS.
And additional observation that seems to apply to all software providers
these days, is they seem to assume, when it comes to their help files, users
are at the junior high level, and completely ignore the elementary level
users. Not to mention many help files basically suck.
tell you that you can do X, but don't bother to tell you how to do X.No one seems to view their product through the eyes of a beginner or simply
new to their product.
This isn't peculiar to OSS so why mention it, unless you just want to
rant?
Greetings everyone,
I've used OOo for a number of years. Today I installed LibreOffice to see how
it did. So far so good, but one glitch that maybe someone can help me with.
After the install on WinXP I ran the Help files installer supposedly
successfully. My problem is that I cannot for the life of me figure out how
to get the offline help to work. F1 or the Help menu always brings up the
online help. I am not always connected to the Internet so getting the offline
help working is important to me. I've spent quite a bit of time searching for
answers online, but with no joy. Have I just overlooked something simple?
Thanks for any help anyone can give.
Cliff
Try disconnecting from the internet and then try?
HTH
Andy
Does it work on the cloud? If you talk about the weather, yes.
Seriously, the PortableApps application, including LibreOffice Portable work without formal installation. These programs also usually don't create any registry entries. It allows one to run programs like LibreOffice, Firefox or Thunderbird from a USB key. Useful, for example if you want to use a program on a borrowed computer. I have read a few times that LibreOffice Portable is very slowon a typical USB key, slower than the previous version of OpenOffice. It works fine from a small thumb drive and it's great if you use it from a customer's computer.
Thank you for asking this question, Cliff. Yesterday, I lost my
connection to the Internet (the blizzard) and hit the F1 and my browser
was launched. I forgot I had installed the help files after installing
LO. It would have been nice if it had gone to the installed help. Since
it did not, I'd have to say Andy's suggestion doesn't work.
Well, all I can say it that it works here. Browser opens a local file that looks like the web version of the help. Using Ubuntu.
Andy