Mac people

If there are any primarily Mac users on this list, please contact me off-list?

My interest is almost exclusively in Writer, and because I work on several projects at the same time, I like to have available and open several different word processors. When I've tried to run both OOo and LO at the same time, LO crashes. It works well if I do not open OOo, though I keep OOo on my machine. No conflicts with NisusPro, MyWritings, GeoWord, Bean, but I would like to use OOo or NeoOffice.

Thank you.
ernie kurtz
kurtzern@umich.edu
MacBook 3.1
OSX 10.6.7
2.2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
4 GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM

Hi Ernest,

If there are any primarily Mac users on this list, please contact me off-list?

My interest is almost exclusively in Writer, and because I work on several projects at the same time, I like to have available and open several different word processors. When I've tried to run both OOo and LO at the same time, LO crashes. It works well if I do not open OOo, though I keep OOo on my machine. No conflicts with NisusPro, MyWritings, GeoWord, Bean, but I would like to use OOo or NeoOffice.

I have noticed that with LO 3.3.x and OOo 3.3.x, I could get one or the
other to crash if both were running at the same time. I haven't been
able to pin it down though, as it is somewhat irregular and put it down
to instabilities in both products. I have a theory that the programs
possibly attempt to address the same memory space during certain
operations, which potentially causes the problems. I can't prove it
because trying to run valgrind on two separate OOo/Neo/LibO instances
virtually brings my Mac to a standstill.

Alex

You can create two different users to use each of the different apps - only way to accomplish this in my opinion unless you go through all options and create two different locations for app user profiles, as that is what is causing the crashes I believe (I.e, they are reading same user data....)

________________________________
From: Alexander Thurgood <alex.thurgood@gmail.com>
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 23 June, 2011 10:34:23
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Mac people

Le 21/06/11 20:56, Ernest Kurtz a écrit :

Hi Ernest,

If there are any primarily Mac users on this list, please contact me off-list?

My interest is almost exclusively in Writer, and because I work on several
projects at the same time, I like to have available and open several different
word processors. When I've tried to run both OOo and LO at the same time, LO
crashes. It works well if I do not open OOo, though I keep OOo on my machine.
No conflicts with NisusPro, MyWritings, GeoWord, Bean, but I would like to use
OOo or NeoOffice.

I have noticed that with LO 3.3.x and OOo 3.3.x, I could get one or the
other to crash if both were running at the same time. I haven't been
able to pin it down though, as it is somewhat irregular and put it down
to instabilities in both products. I have a theory that the programs
possibly attempt to address the same memory space during certain
operations, which potentially causes the problems. I can't prove it
because trying to run valgrind on two separate OOo/Neo/LibO instances
virtually brings my Mac to a standstill.

Alex

Hi :slight_smile:
That is not specific to Macs. It happens on all platforms afaik (i haven't
heard from Bsd people). That doesn't make it less important tho!
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Dňa 23.06.2011 12:51, Tom Davies wrote / napísal(a):

________________________________
From: Alexander Thurgood <alex.thurgood@gmail.com>
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Thu, 23 June, 2011 10:34:23
Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: Mac people

Hi Ernest,

If there are any primarily Mac users on this list, please contact me off-list?

My interest is almost exclusively in Writer, and because I work on several
projects at the same time, I like to have available and open several different
word processors. When I've tried to run both OOo and LO at the same time, LO
crashes. It works well if I do not open OOo, though I keep OOo on my machine.
No conflicts with NisusPro, MyWritings, GeoWord, Bean, but I would like to use
OOo or NeoOffice.

I have noticed that with LO 3.3.x and OOo 3.3.x, I could get one or the
other to crash if both were running at the same time. I haven't been
able to pin it down though, as it is somewhat irregular and put it down
to instabilities in both products. I have a theory that the programs
possibly attempt to address the same memory space during certain
operations, which potentially causes the problems. I can't prove it
because trying to run valgrind on two separate OOo/Neo/LibO instances
virtually brings my Mac to a standstill.

I would check the output of
ldd soffice.bin
(for both LO and OOO binaries). Maybe you will see that one uses a
shared library of the other.

Normally, these programs should be independent. If they influence
themselves, they must have something in common. The first thing, which
jumps to my mind, is a shared library with the same.

Milos

Hi :slight_smile:
They have almost all libraries in common, sometimes there are slightly different
names to some of the libraries. Variables, calls, stack-pointers (?) (please no
Latin quotes!) almost everything is the same and likely to cause conflicts. All
kinds of stuff that is way beyond the understanding of non-devs. Most of it all
dates back to the way things were set-up in Star Office, hence soffice, swriter,
and so on. It's not a trivial issue to be sorted out with a quick
find&replace-all. Just the code-clean-up is taking longer than 6 months
although we are already seeing a lot of benefits from that, such as smaller
downloads, faster start-up and so on.

Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Thank you, Alex. Is there any possibility of having an LO Mac list? This list is deluging my mailbox with queries foreign to my needs and experience.

ernie kurtz

Hi :slight_smile:
A forum would help. People could subscribe to specific threads or just visit
the forum and have a look around to see if there are topics of interest. The
mailing list idea is mad and archaic but sadly, people have strongly objected to
a more modern approach such as setting up a nice forum.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Thank you, Marc. Might you -- or anyone -- have any thoughts/experience with NeoOffice and LO?
ek

Hi Tom,

A forum would help. People could subscribe to specific threads or just visit
the forum and have a look around to see if there are topics of interest. The
mailing list idea is mad and archaic but sadly, people have strongly objected to
a more modern approach such as setting up a nice forum.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

There are plenty of forums already where LibreOffice is accepted just as
much as NeoOffice, OpenOffice.org or any other branch/fork/child
development. People with Mac problems post on those forums too, but it
is rare for there to be a Mac/Windwos/Linux specific sub-compartment for
them and quite understandably so, given that the majority of problems
are shared across all platforms.

Alex

Well it is not within my power to create one, and even if it were, I
would have my reservations about doing so because in the majority of
cases, most of the main problems are shared across all operating systems.

Alex

EK - I've used OOo X11 on Mac, neooffice, OOo aqua and LO. As mentioned below, I do not try to use them on same login as too much trouble. I am still a little leery of OOo v LO, especially since apache announcement - I use LO but have kept OOo on clients machines. There are issues with special to Mac (in fact there was a recent posting about one Alex and I discussed, which may not get resolved simply because the role necessary is vacant.....) but as Tom said most OOo/LO issues are cross platform

Hi Alex

One of the benifiets of emailers such as Thunderbird is that they have brilliant email filters built in to them.

When I signed up to [libreoffice-users], I had no idea the of the good quality & especially the quantity of emails I would receive.

So very quickly afterwards, I created a folder just for [libreoffice-users] and I filter into that folder any email with that in the title.

However, since I read a rant from a fellow Windows user about OS's and their supporters, I have decided that I would put [windows] in the title as well, to make it quite clear what operating system I am using.

I am not suggesting for one minute that anyone should do the same, but if it would help with Mac People (a compromise and keep you in the main system) then you could put [Mac] in the title, then if it is OS orientated, I must admit that for me, I would be glad of the "skip opportunity ", with so many other interesting and apt emails.

Just a thought!

John B
XP Pro sp3

Hi all,

Hi Alex

One of the benifiets of emailers such as Thunderbird is that they have
brilliant email filters built in to them.

When I signed up to [libreoffice-users], I had no idea the of the good
quality & especially the quantity of emails I would receive.

So very quickly afterwards, I created a folder just for
[libreoffice-users] and I filter into that folder any email with that in
the title.

However, since I read a rant from a fellow Windows user about OS's and
their supporters, I have decided that I would put [windows] in the
title as well, to make it quite clear what operating system I am using.

I am not suggesting for one minute that anyone should do the same, but
if it would help with Mac People (a compromise and keep you in the main
system) then you could put [Mac] in the title, then if it is OS
orientated, I must admit that for me, I would be glad of the "skip
opportunity ", with so many other interesting and apt emails.

Just a thought!

John B
XP Pro sp3

>> Thank you, Alex. Is there any possibility of having an LO Mac list? This list is deluging my mailbox with queries foreign to my needs and experience.
>>
> Well it is not within my power to create one, and even if it were, I
> would have my reservations about doing so because in the majority of
> cases, most of the main problems are shared across all operating systems.
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.901 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3714 - Release Date: 06/19/11 19:33:00
>

Most user problems are not OS dependent such as using styles correctly.
These questions can be answered by any LO user. We ask for OS primarily
to track if specific issues are more common in one OS than another,
indicating a bug specific to the OS caused when porting to that OS..

Install problems are OS dependent and are often caused by specific
issues with various OS versions. We want to know this partly to improve
LO in this area and partly to know when the user must do something else
to fix the problem.

Hi, John,

Hi Alex

One of the benifiets of emailers such as Thunderbird is that they have
brilliant email filters built in to them.

   <snip>

So very quickly afterwards, I created a folder just for
[libreoffice-users] and I filter into that folder any email with that in
the title.

I've hated every mailing list I've ever used, although there are few of them. :slight_smile: I find keeping track of which emails related to which, subject wise, very hard to do. Frustrating, actually.

Likewise, I hate the basic way forums (the Nabble interface... ick!) are set up. The design usually wastes a lot of space on my monitor that rarely relates to finding answers to a problem.

I was about to unsubscribe, when I read an email about accessing the mailing list via http://www.gmane.org/. It allows you to have read/write access to the mailing list, but the user "sees" a newsgroup style of interface. And I use Thunderbird for that. I really like it!

It not only gives you the advantage of your email filter, i.e. all the LO emails are in a "folder", they are also sorted by "subject" and threaded if you desire.

I hope this makes sense. :slight_smile: Feel free to send an email if you wish, I could then send you a screenshot if you'd like to see what I'm trying to explain.

To be fair, the Gmane interface is on the LO website, but it's not well explained, and for me wasn't easy to find. I read about Gmane from the email list prior to finally finding the reference to Gmane on the LO website.

I put my OS info in my signature file via Thunderbird.

I use LO exclusively these days, although I did have NeoOffice and OOo installed at one time.

I no longer want to be "playing" between different office suites (used to do that all the time), so I dropped the NO an OOo for different reasons.

After reading a number of posts regarding the directions LO and OOo were going, my feeling was LO would probably be more satisfying to me, even though the cores of the program were the same/similar.

NO is another story. :frowning: Unless it has changed (I haven't been back to the website in well over a year), you actually have to pay to ask for help on the website. Even if all I want is help from another user such as yourself. I have no objection to paying for help from the developer, but I'm *not* willing to pay the developer for help that comes from another user.

Hi :slight_smile:
I think the Documentation group would love help updating the info about Gmane
and other things. Screenshots definitely help. If you have time. I think it
might be the website group that actually revise that particular page at the
moment but these things might move around later.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

Hi, Tom,

Check your email later, but right now I have to go use a paintbrush! LOL

Hi ken

Hi, John,

Hi Alex

One of the benifiets of emailers such as Thunderbird is that they have
brilliant email filters built in to them.

<snip>

So very quickly afterwards, I created a folder just for
[libreoffice-users] and I filter into that folder any email with that in
the title.

I've hated every mailing list I've ever used, although there are few of them. :slight_smile: I find keeping track of which emails related to which, subject wise, very hard to do. Frustrating, actually.

Likewise, I hate the basic way forums (the Nabble interface... ick!) are set up. The design usually wastes a lot of space on my monitor that rarely relates to finding answers to a problem.

I was about to unsubscribe, when I read an email about accessing the mailing list via http://www.gmane.org/. It allows you to have read/write access to the mailing list, but the user "sees" a newsgroup style of interface. And I use Thunderbird for that. I really like it!

It not only gives you the advantage of your email filter, i.e. all the LO emails are in a "folder", they are also sorted by "subject" and threaded if you desire.

I hope this makes sense. :slight_smile: Feel free to send an email if you wish, I could then send you a screenshot if you'd like to see what I'm trying to explain.

To be fair, the Gmane interface is on the LO website, but it's not well explained, and for me wasn't easy to find. I read about Gmane from the email list prior to finally finding the reference to Gmane on the LO website.

I put my OS info in my signature file via Thunderbird.

Doesn't the threaded view of emails in Thunderbird achieve the same as subscribing to gmane. I have all incoming email related to LO filtered into a folder and if it switches to threaded view it looks just the same as the view in gmane, but without the need for another account.
steve

HI, Steve,

Hi ken

Doesn't the threaded view of emails in Thunderbird achieve the same as
subscribing to gmane. I have all incoming email related to LO filtered
into a folder and if it switches to threaded view it looks just the same
as the view in gmane, but without the need for another account.
steve

It does, but the devil is, IMO, in the details. :slight_smile: Some of the details are in your personal preferences of how you want to access the mailing list and for doing email.

I like to do email as HTML, embedding images, using Comic Sans font, and the other bells and whistles available to you. But LO is text based only, meaning no formatting other than line length, no images, no proportional fonts, yada, yada, yada. LOL

If I used my email account to write a reply to an LO message, I need to manually make sure of the line length, correct formatting of the replies (the number of ">" characters at the beginning of the line, making sure the text quoted is assigned to the correct poster, etc.), a monospaced font, and who knows what else I'm not thinking of.

Perhaps LO takes care of this at their end, I don't actually know.

I've always had "irritations" with TB when replying to emails that have been forwarded numerous times. Editing was a real PITA. I've installed the latest version of TB just a couple hours ago, perhaps those "irritations" have gone away. :slight_smile:

But if I use the Gmane newsgroup account, and subscribe to the LO users list, then reply to the message, all of that correct formatting is automatically taken care of for me. I don't have to worry about it, which is one of the good things about computers and good programming.

Using Gmane, when a message comes in that has quotes from numerous previous messages that are properly assigned to the writer, TB provides a different shade of grey background for the text, making it easier to see who posted what. If this isn't making any sense, send me an email and I'll return a screenshot that shows what I am trying to say. :slight_smile:

I am not an expert at TB, still in the learning stage, so what I write from here on may be in error, as I've not experimented with some of this, it's just what I *think* happens based on the vocabulary used within TB and my experiences so far.

Scenario:

Let's say you are a new subscriber to this users list. And you do have some questions (that's why you came, right? :slight_smile: ), and maybe some of your questions have already been asked and answered? How do you, using just the mailing list, get the previous X (let's say 500 for discussion purposes) messages, to scroll through and see if your question has been asked?

LO does have a mailing list archive, and you can set it to threaded view. But, those threads are not collapsible, so if there are 100 replies to the first post, you have to page through all those replies before seeing the next subject. As as I write this, there are 74 pages, @90 messages per page in my browser, to scroll through. With Gmane, the threads can be collapsed in TB, giving you only one subject line to deal with all 100 messages.

Those messages are in your browser, not on your hard drive for reference later. It is more time consuming to use that to simply scroll through the messages in TB, using either an email account or a newsgroup account.

This message of yours I'm replying to is already in the archive, I suspect the addition of new messages happens in real time.

Using email in TB, I don't see a way to automatically download the previous 500 messages automatically to your computer.

Using Gmane in TB, when you initially setup the account, you can can tell TB how many message headers you want to TB to download. Tell it 500, and you get the previous 500 message headers. If there is a way to ask for more old messages, I haven't found out how to do it, other than to unsubscribe and the subscribe again and ask for more, or for all.

With email, message bodies are automatically downloaded, unless you tell TB to *not* download messages over a selected size. Since you don't want you lose those photos of XXXXX being sent by someone, a small sized message from LO will always be downloaded.

With Gmane, and other newsgroups, you have to tell TB to download the message bodies at the outset. Otherwise, the message body is downloaded when you open the message. On my Mac, those message bodies are cached on the hard drive, so presumably the message body is only downloaded once, assuming the cached file is sound.

OTOH, with newsgroups and my understanding of the synchronization and storage settings is correct, you can tell TB to download all the message bodies to the computer.

For me, I see more advantages to having the mailing list displayed as if it was a newsgroup server, rather than email. Not to mention, I currently read 2 LO lists, and possibly may add another one or two in the future. With the Gmane account, I don't have to create any filters or deleted any filters as required.

At the moment, this is all I can think of. Hope I didn't bore you to death! :smiley: