Replying to users

users
#1

Hi all,

Just a quick question - when on this list (users), shouldn't we keep the
sender's email in the To / Cc list when we reply-all in case they haven't
subscribed to the list (which makes sense if they're just looking for
support and not for helping others out).

The reason I am asking this is because sometimes I see people replying to
just the users list, which makes me wonder whether the user, who is looking
for support, is actually getting the answers they want, or whether only
people who are subscribed see it. Some people will just email
users@global.libreoffice.org with a question, then they may not get a reply
unless they are subscribed, which means that they won't get an answer to
their question.

Just wondering as this crossed my mind today,

Kieran

#2

Kieran Peckett wrote:

Just a quick question - when on this list (users), shouldn't we keep the
sender's email in the To / Cc list when we reply-all in case they haven't
subscribed to the list (which makes sense if they're just looking for
support and not for helping others out).

Some of us don't like receiving duplicate messages.

#3

Some of us have no option other than to reply-all because of the way our mailer works with this list.
steve

#4

Hi :slight_smile:
Yes, ideally the "Original Poster" rather than whoever happened to post the last reply but it's not always easy to do that.

Personally if i get 2 emails that look likely to be roughly the same then i just delete the 2nd one without really looking at it.  Unfortunately it's often the 2nd one (the older one) that has the better formatting.  So, duplicates are easy for me.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#5

What I have found, is that the server doesn't send mail to people if
they're already in the To / Cc lines, and as long as both the list and the
OP get it, everyone will know that the question has been answered. For
example, you will only receive one of this message, even though the list is
in the Cc.

#6

I see your point, as Y! Mail doesn't have a conversation view yet, unlike
GMail and Outlook.com. I know that on Gmail every post in the conversation
has a reply/reply-all button next to it, I'm not sure about YMail, but
doing a search might help...

#7

What I have found, is that the server doesn't send mail to people if they're already in the To / Cc lines, ...

No: that's simply untrue. You are noticing the behaviour of Gmail, your e-mail provider, which ditches what it believes to be unnecessary duplicates. You are by no means the first person to be confused by this unhelpful behaviour. You will also note that you do not see copies of your own messages to the list; again, this is Gmail interfering, not the (general) conduct of the list server itself.

For example, you will only receive one of this message, even though the list is in the Cc.

I imagine you will hear that this was not so.

Brian Barker

#8

Hi :slight_smile:
I thought we had discovered that was true last time we discussed this.  On Yahoo i seem to be getting something similar but that's due to weird settings.  So, it's pretty much just GMail that has the 'clever' settings.
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#9

Just subscribed a few days ago and not received any answers yet. Subscription must have worked as I do receive those emails.
I did not know what the flag (or smthg) was and just put anything such as (base? one that was listed and meant absolutely nothing to me).
My question was Can libre office read pages/appleworks/clarissworks? Thanks. Turquoisegrece

#10

Kieran Peckett wrote:

For
example, you will only receive one of this message, even though the list is
in the Cc.

Actually, I received 2 copies. One from the list and one from you. What's worse is I generally respond to the first one I read, which is usually the direct copy. This means I am not replying to a message from the mail list.

#11

The "two copies" is why if I reply to the list, I do not add the poster's address in the "TO, CC, etc." list.

If I have some "extra" info to include for the poster, like an image file, I will send an email directly to that person off the list.

#12

Just a quick question - when on this list (users), shouldn't we keep
the sender's email in the To / Cc list when we reply-all

No.

in case they haven't subscribed to the list (which makes sense if
they're just looking for support and not for helping others out).

A mailinglist allowing messages from non-subscribers is imho
mis-configured.

The reason I am asking this is because sometimes I see people
replying to just the users list,

That's the correct way to do it. No dis-courtesy copies. Never.

Sincerely,

Wolfgang

Having learned correct use of email and usenet 20 years ago.

#13

From: Wolfgang Keller [feliphil@gmx.net]
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 8:42 AM

Just a quick question - when on this list (users), shouldn't we keep
the sender's email in the To / Cc list when we reply-all

No.

in case they haven't subscribed to the list (which makes sense if
they're just looking for support and not for helping others out).

A mailinglist allowing messages from non-subscribers is imho
mis-configured.

That is correct! Anything else would be a recipe for spam--non-subscribed users are be "moderated" through if the message merits--often with a personal note back from the moderator on how to subscribe.

The reason I am asking this is because sometimes I see people
replying to just the users list,

That's the correct way to do it. No dis-courtesy copies. Never.

+1
By replying directly to user, you are implying that you are taking response "off list"--please do so if that is your intent, i.e. to criticize or "guide" so as not to embarrass other subscribers don't need or want to see that. Otherwise the netiquette is to address discussion for the list to read--and keep response civil.

So, use the "respond to all" option of your email reader of choice, it SHOULD pick up the mail list address. Delete the "other" direct addresses. And finally TRIM away any of the extra crud in the message. Leave just enough for the message to stand on its own, but not be distracting either to read--or when viewed in context in a News group reader or a web archive like Nabble.

Stuart

#14

Thanks everyone for your help, and for being understanding of why I asked
this, and for explaining that all non-subscribed users get moderated
automatically. I just assumed that it was like Google Groups, which does
have this functionality, and which saves duplicate emails being needlessly
sent.

By the way - most people will see the users@ address as a support email,
rather than a mailing list. Most people would ask the question "Why should
I subscribe?", because they don't want un-needed e-mail, as they are only
interested in their question, rather than others' questions, which, in case
you were, wondering, is why I asked this question.

Once again, thanks for all the help,

Kieran

#15

That's one of the nice things about Thunderbird: I have a "Reply List" button that replaces "Reply All" when a message comes from what I consider to be a properly-behaved list server. I also have the option to reply just to the original author of a message. If the list server has the list as the "Reply-To" address, then "Reply" goes to the list and "Reply All" creates the duplicate message to the original poster.

Dave

#16

Hi :slight_smile:
That is another huge argument we have had on this (and some of the other) mailing lists quite a few times; although none in the last couple of years.  Mailing lists are very unfamiliar to most people and are often seen as being very geeky.

The Ask LO bot was meant to become the main way that people would access our user support.  Also there is an unofficial forum, which grew out of one of the arguments and was meant to evolve into being the official forum within a few weeks.  Things went a little sideways (as they do) because by the time the rest of the project worked out that a forum would be pretty neat (a couple of years later) the owner had invested too much time and effort to give it up easily and the rest of the project decided they didn't want it anyway.  A new official forum is very very nearly ready.  Just looking for moderators and final tweaks.

So, although people might see "users@..." as the place to go for user support there are other options and we are about to be given the one that people are most familiar with.

On the moderators list we have discussed ways of minimising "fragmentation" with perhaps having some "common room" where all the various moderators and such could chat but we eventually decided that keeping them separate would probably be in everyone's best interest.  Perhaps one will gain a reputation for being better at one thing (such as this list is fairly awesome at macros and Base (although pointing people to OOo forums is also a good idea with Base)) while other systems gain reputation in other areas. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#17

The short answer : No. Never could and probably never will unless
someone decides to develop the corresponding filters.

Clarisworks and Appleworks used binary formats AFAIK.
Pages uses some kind of XML markup and an embedded PDF, but there's
nothing to read that with in LO.

Alex

#18

Hi :slight_smile:
It might be worth putting forwards as a major project for next year's "Google Summer of Code".  The topics for this year have been selected already.  Last year someone wrote filters to import Visio formats and was keen to extend the filters to cope with other versions of MS Office.

A work-around might be to run LibreOffice alongside those other Office Suites and copy&paste letters/documents/books as and when but only as and when needed.  Large scale migrations might be worth leaving until a proper filter is written.

Normally people just post such things as a bug-report but use the drop-downs to make it a "feature request" or "Enhancement request".  Some other projects use the term "Wish-list item".  THat's really the best 1st step.  Maybe look into GSoC some other time.

There is also some excellent thing for people or organisations to promise to pay a certain amount if their favourite bit of coding gets done.  If enough people have gone for the same thing it can increase the chances of a dev getting interested and completing the work. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#19

Hi :slight_smile:
I think McBrides subscription didn't work completely properly.  I don't know why.  The moderators team have to accept message in order for them to reach the list but even then they seem to go into my Junk/Spam box :frowning:
Apols and regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#20

Hi Tom,

Hi :slight_smile:
It might be worth putting forwards as a major project for next year's "Google Summer of Code". The topics for this year have been selected already.

Seriously, I doubt that anyone is going to volunteer to provide Claris
or Appleworks support. These are old binary formats.

Now, Pages/Numbers/Keynote support might interest more people, but for
that you would need a Mac developer with some serious time on his/her
hands and at the moment there aren't many floating around in this project.

To my knowledge, not even other apps on OSX can open the
Pages/Numbers/Keynote files. One would have thought that if the problem
of interoperability with these formats was that acute, then some bright
Mac spark would have developed an app that could do just that, convert
them to something more useful.

Alex