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How is that not obvious? Just continue using MS Office, or did I miss something?
Kind regards
Johnny Rosenberg
ジョニー・ローゼンバーグ
This list does not allow attachments, so your slide did not reach the
list.
Can you perhaps host it somewhere and send the URL to the list?
Open a blank document in LibreOffice Impress, draw a line, and change the line style to "dashed". Then save it as MS Office 97 *.ppt. Then close and reopen the *.ppt. For me, the dashes are converted to a solid line. When I checked the line style, it was blank, not solid like it appears nor dashed as I specified it.
It's a minor pain for me to save it and send the URL; I hope this will be adequate.
Thanks for your interest.
Spencer
Spencer
The early version of MSO for the Mac left a lot to be desired, so I tried
OOo.
That was about six years ago.
I very quickly graduated onto NeoOffice, a great improvement, then when the
Doc F was founded I moved to LO.
I am treasurer of a society and whilst I am knowledgeable of the members
requirements, the officers of other societies are often an unknown quantity.
Libre 3.4.3 fulfils all my requirements, mainly with writer, calc and the
occasional presentation.
It has never let me down and I have received no complaints.
I keep everything I do in Libre format. What I receive I keep in the format
it arrived in and as I said, I am happy to supply to others in whatever
format they prefer.
If you find MSO easier then that is your privilege.
I haven't touched MSO on a PC since I retired eighteen years ago, so I don't
have your experience.
Tink.
Spencer
The early version of MSO for the Mac left a lot to be desired, so I tried
OOo.
Fifteen years ago, I had compatibility problems with MS Word on PCs and on Macs: Microsoft was not even compatible with itself across platforms. That was a problem, because my primary collaborator at that time loved Mac equipment. He was in a university environment, and it was substantially more expensive for me to pay for that, so I stayed with PC compatibles and suffered the compatibility problems.
That was about six years ago.
I very quickly graduated onto NeoOffice, a great improvement, then when the
Doc F was founded I moved to LO.
I am treasurer of a society and whilst I am knowledgeable of the members
requirements, the officers of other societies are often an unknown quantity.
Libre 3.4.3 fulfils all my requirements, mainly with writer, calc and the
occasional presentation.
It has never let me down and I have received no complaints.
I keep everything I do in Libre format. What I receive I keep in the format
it arrived in and as I said, I am happy to supply to others in whatever
format they prefer.
If you find MSO easier then that is your privilege.
I haven't touched MSO on a PC since I retired eighteen years ago, so I don't
have your experience.
MSO 97 is easier for me, but I don't have it, because it's no longer available. Rather pay for having to relearn where MS has hidden all the controls with the new version, I can to Open Office and then LibreOffice. Spencer
Hi
I agree with you
Regards,
Jorge Rodríguez
Another example:
1. Download "http://www.cagreens.org/sclara/resources/flyers/noCreditCd-bookmark20110306.odt".
2. Open in LibreOffice 3.4.3. Save as MS Word 97 *.doc format.
3. Close, then reopen the *.doc version: When I did this now under Windows 7, this changed the widths of the columns had changed and with it the column breaks, etc. I checked Format -> Page -> Columns: *.odt showed from Autowidth with columns = 1.42, space = 0.70; *.doc had columns = 2.13, space = 0.70. The numbers do not make sense to me, but the visual change is clear. I noticed this problem with an earlier version of LibreOffice 3.4 and I think also with Open Office 3.3.
Enjoy (if that's the right word).
Spencer
<snip>
Microsoft changes formats as a
market strategy.
As explained by Carl Shapiro and Hal Varian (1998) Information rules: a strategic guide to the network economy (Harvard U. Pr.). A second subtitle for this book is, "How to wage and win a standards war." Microsoft has won for now. The Document Foundation needs to continue trying to make LibreOffice as easy as possible for people to support. Gradually, more people are coming to understand the value of Free Open-Source Software (FOSS). MSFT peaked at just under $60 per share on Dec. 31, 1999, and has been between 15 and 40 for the past decade. Companies like Google now pay people full time to support FOSS, and I expect that some governments will soon also pay people to support FOSS if they don't already. The future belongs to LibreOffice, MySQL, Linux, R, etc.: We just need to continue to deal with the world as it is, and the trend to FOSS will continue.
Best Wishes,
Spencer
This is a general replay to
Should LibreOffice even support Microsoft secret formats?
illustrating my personal situation, and why my answer is *yes*.
I moved from Microsoft Office Professional to Word Perfect Office Professional probably 12 to 13 years ago. The reason for the professional versions is that I needed a database as well as an office suite. When Open Office first came out, I moved to it, starting with version .9 something. I needed to keep Paradox as my database at that time. Once Base became available with Open Office, I was able to move to Base and drop proprietary software for an office suite completely. Once I had everything in Open Office, I had one major step forward for someday moving to Linux instead of Windows. I made that transition 2 1/2 years ago. I get many attachments from co-workers and other organizations that are sent in Microsoft format. Most of these documents are relatively simple. I've not had anyone send me anything in docx format I couldn't read. Generally I will need to adjust margins, or something like that. I'm 97% Windows free. I only use it for video editing and for a forms program which will not work with Wine in Linux. Most of the people who send me these attachments are using what they are required to use, which is Microsoft. If I could not be somewhat compatible with them, Open Office or LibreOffice now, would be of no value to me at all.
If we could get back to the big push of several years for governments to adopt odf standards for all of their documents, we would all be a lot better off. But that push would never work if there wasn't some backward compatibility for the former Microsoft users to be able to open previous documents.
Don
I'm still bemused by the persistence of the "secret Microsoft formats" meme.
As a matter of fact, which formats that matter for OpenOffice are believed to be secret? I can't find any that OpenOffice converts that are not public and licensed under the Open Specification Promise as well.
That may not be enough assurance for some folks, but it is definitely not because they are "secret."
- Dennis
PS: The only three formats that I encounter and that would be good to know are (1) Microsoft Money - since it has been abandoned, (2) Windows Live Writer drafts format, and (3) OneNote format. These might not be secret, but I haven't found where they are documented. Somehow, I don't think those are the ones that are meant.
Spencer
That is odd.
According to the Format/Page the column widths have not been altered.
On the page, they have.
Re. Your comments as to the future of LO and all FOSS.
Count me in.
Tink.
...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/gg134032.aspx
OneNote:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd924743(v=office.12).aspx
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd951288(v=office.12).aspx
Gary,
Thanks for finding [MS-ONE] and [MS-ONESTORE] for OneNote. I thought I must have dreamed seeing that listed anywhere. I do notice that neither are covered by the Open Specification Promise or the Community Promise at this time. But I can take them off of my "secret" list.
- Dennis
LibreOffice. I've had problems with LibreOffice where I save something
in *.doc format or *.ppt and reopen it, and it's different.
This is the fundamental essence of the problem. The majority of m$
users of LO want a free m$ clone, ideally producing m$ file formats.
A more interesting question to the _long term_ development of the odf
is, did you experience problems saving to native odf?
could with MS Office. For any document I have to send to a collaborator
who uses MS Office, I need to keep it primarily in the MS format to
increase the chances that I will at least know what is being changed
without warning!
It is difficult to believe that as a profitable business, you are
unable to buy m$o. In effect, m$ users are asking LO programmers to
donate their _free_ time to subsidise your collective unwillingness to
buy m$o!
It is hoped that all those m$ users seeking an m$ clone, should donate
at least equivalent to Euro5 per m$ format technical support question
to LO.
For example, in LibreOffice 3.4.3 Impress, create a dashed line
and save it in MS PowerPoint 97 format. Close then reopen it. When I
did that just now under Windows 7 x64, the line style was lost and it
displayed solid. If I do NOT have to share it with an MS Office user,
then I keep it in Open Office format. Otherwise, I must convert at some
Does the dashed line remain so in native odf? If so, LO is working
fine. If you want m$ perfection, buy m$o or donate an equivalent value
to LO for m$ clone development. Presumably for m$ users, the _freely
donated_ time spent on m$ compatibility should be at the expense of
time available to develop a superior _true alternative_ to m$, in
which case requests for monetary donations are entirely justified.
Strategic development of odf is a long term goal, my guess is at least
20 years to become significant in quantity. For every extra m$ file
format created by LO and distributed as so (and thus by definition
every less potential odf file), the time to increase the quantity of
odf documents in existence is lengthened.
Surely this is accounted for in the costs of you conducting such
business (i.e. buying a legal copy of each m$ product).
The original poster chose the wrong word; replace "secret" with "proprietary"
My assumption was that the word secret was used where it should have been propriety. But certainly Microsoft wants to prevent as much compatibility as possible.
Don
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 16:05:01 -0400
From: donmyers@myersfarm.comMy assumption was that the word secret was used where it should have
been propriety. But certainly Microsoft wants to prevent as much
compatibility as possible.
Perhaps I did use 'secret' when I should have used 'proprietary' instead. However, I still have to question how Microsoft can 'prevent compatibility' if the file LibreOffice produces is an exact copy of what Microsoft Office produces or if the files MSO produces are all in a well documented format, why LibO still has problems handling complex files.
It certainly can't be a programming issue since having the documentation of the filetype makes reading and writing them a snap. So why do we still have problems with MSO files?
Anthony
Hi 
MS don't implement their standard in the way that they wrote they would. Having set a standard anyone that follows that standard is guaranteed to produce things that are a little wonky when opened in MS Office. LO devs work at getting LO's implementation as wonky as MS's but the wonkiness is the unknown factor.
Regards from
Tom
Date: Sun, 11 Sep 2011 21:33:09 +0100
From: tomdavies04@yahoo.co.ukHi
MS don't implement their standard in the way that they wrote they would. Having set a standard
anyone that follows that standard is guaranteed to produce things that are a little wonky when
opened in MS Office. LO devs work at getting LO's implementation as wonky as MS's but the
wonkiness is the unknown factor.
Hi Tom,
Ok, I can accept that. But then, aren't we back to a 'secret format'? If I implement a standard to write out a file a certain way and do it in another way that isn't documented then I'm not following the standard and, thus, my filetype is secret. The only way it's *not* secret is if they file is written to the standard without any deviations.
At first, I thought 'ok, so this means MS has published a standard that other vendors can write to and MS will has implemented that standard (in addition to their secret one) so that MSO can always properly read other vendor created MSO files". But that's not the case. There are times, it seems, when LibO files are improperly rendered in MSO.
So, apparently, the 'standard' really doesn't mean anything because that's not really what Microsoft is doing.
Anthony