Unsubscribing from this list

users
#1

Hello,

in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for unsubscription from this mailing list.

Since we are a volunteer project, and each of us spends up to several hours per day to work on his tasks, pro bono, I would like to ask all of you to *READ* this message *IN ITS ENTIRETY*.

Every mailing lists contains information on how to unsubscribe in the footer. In case you have problems with unsubscribing, there is also a website giving detailed information on what to do to unsubscribe. Its address is

  http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/

At the bottom of this page, there is also a *HUMAN CONTACT* you can write to in case of troubles. Do *NOT* reply to *THIS* e-mail in order to be unsubscribed, and do *NOT* drop me a private mail. It will *NOT* work. Rather *READ* the above page thoroughly, and in case it does not solve your problem, you can drop an e-mail to the contact mentioned there.

Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error. We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the instructions we give.

Thank you very much for your cooperation, and sorry for any inconveniences,
Florian

#2

Hi Florian,

Florian Effenberger wrote (20-01-12 13:28)

in the last few days, we have been receiving numerous requests for
unsubscription from this mailing list.

Sadly, yes.
Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble.

Way over 95% of all unsubscription problems are not related to any
malfunction of our mail system or of spam filters triggering in error.
We can confirm - we've researched each and every case - that nearly all
unsubscription problems simply occur because people do not *READ* the
instructions we give.

Obviously.

I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY.
To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :slight_smile:

Thank you very much for your cooperation, and sorry for any inconveniences,

Thanks a lot for you,

#3

Hi,

Sadly, yes.
Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble.

no problem, I hope this information can help a bit those who cannot unsubscribe.

I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to
XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able
to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY.
To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :slight_smile:

Indeed. What's most annoying are those people badly complaining and ranting at us, but most people simply do not take the time to read. That's what annoys me most. I accept to be blamed when there's a malfunction on our side, but when people simply do not want to read, it sucks. :slight_smile:

Florian

#4

Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead
simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... they don't
really have to read or understand much of anything. But if you want to
leave..different story - then we say- on your own buddy, or What you
can't read or Man are you stupid.

Maybe make that link in the footer of each email a real unsubscribe URl,
as we do to help get them subscribed, and not just a link to a help
page.

Anyway, just a thought.

//drew

<snip>

#5

drew wrote (20-01-12 14:25)

Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead
simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed...

Ah, do we offer so much service :slight_smile:
Then indeed we should do the same for un-subscribing. (Or make subscribing 'difficult')

#6

Hi :slight_smile:
True.  Sometimes one wonders if people read their own posts.  However bad it seems here it is worth joining Kioskea or Yahoo lists just to see how incredibly much more enlightened everyone (and i do mean everyone) is here.

The mailing list was a good idea when there were only 160 people subscribed to the lists but it's a 'bit' unwieldy now. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#7

drewjensen wrote

Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead
simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... they don't
really have to read or understand much of anything. But if you want to
leave..different story - then we say- on your own buddy, or What you
can't read or Man are you stupid.

Maybe make that link in the footer of each email a real unsubscribe URl,
as we do to help get them subscribed, and not just a link to a help
page.

+1

If there are complains from people on getting out (and they obviously
managed to get in), it seems to me that the two processes aren't equally
simple.

Again, why isn't there a simple link to unsubscribe in each messages footer
instead of a link to Instructions on how to unsubscribe? It takes only two
clicks to subscribe and reading a whole page of instructions to unsubscribe.

Try to find this link in the instructions page:
users+unsubscribe(AT)global.libreoffice.org

Compare that to clicking on link at
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-involved/

Just my 2 cents

#8

drew wrote (20-01-12 14:25)

> Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead
> simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed...

Ah, do we offer so much service :slight_smile:
Then indeed we should do the same for un-subscribing. (Or make
subscribing 'difficult')

*chuckling*... well I suspect that the sad truth is that even if it is
one click on a URL in the footer of each and every email, to start the
unsubscribe process, there will still be someone that just can't quite
manage.

#9

After just reading the instructions on how to unsubscribe from this
list, it seems that it is made far too complex. Having
To unsubscribe click: users+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org
in the footer of emails. (Surprise to some, but some html emails will
not have this header and I don't know why.) Still we would still have to
remind some to reply to the confirmation email they were sent by the
mailing list.

--Dan

#10

Hi,

I am not subscribed to this list, just saw new postings in the archives, so if I miss replying to an important message regarding unsubscription, please excuse me. :wink:

Well, basically, subscription and unsubscription work *exactly* the same way, except that of course, subscribe is replaced by unsubscribe in the message footer.

We currently have one limitation, that is due to our mailing list software, but a new release here has been pending for many months, and it finally looks like we can see it at the horizon. :slight_smile: Depending on the type of subscription (regular, digest or nomail for those using GMANE), you need to unsubscribe.

We already had a +unsubscribe link in the footer, which immediately brought many complaints from digest subscribers, telling that unsubscription does not work. In future versions of our mailing list manager, this will work, but right now, digest subscribers have to use a different address.

I also had disabled digest subscriptions at all in the beginning, which brought complaints as well, so I finally enabled them.

You see, whatever we do, it's wrong for some people, depending on their situation. That's why we created that dedicated web site with detailed information. I bet that anyone who reads thoroughly, and managed to subscribe, should be able to manage unsubscribing. In case they do not, they can contact the address at the bottom of that web site, normally leading to manual unsubscription in less than a few hours.

We ask everyone who has issues to let us know in detail about the problem, and for at least 95% it's simply "they did not read". Only very few issues were technically related.

Florian

#11

+5000

Ben asking for that ever since the lists were set up...

#12

But I'd wager it would reduce the noise considerably...

#13

Hi,

Hi,

Sadly, yes.
Sorry that this is causing you extra trouble.

no problem, I hope this information can help a bit those who cannot unsubscribe.

I always wonder how it can be possible that someone can send a mail to
XX+subscribe@YY and reply to the confirmation mail, but then is not able
to do the same with XX+unsubscribe@YY.
To me, it's just wasting peoples time and fouling our lists. Ah well :slight_smile:

Indeed. What's most annoying are those people badly complaining and ranting at us, but most people simply do not take the time to read. That's what annoys me most. I accept to be blamed when there's a malfunction on our side, but when people simply do not want to read, it sucks. :slight_smile:

I think besides not reading the instructions many fail to realize that we, the volunteers, should not have access to anyone's credentials to protect them, the users. This is a well recognized security procedure to limit access to sensitive information to reduce the risk to the data.

#14

...
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/
<quote>
Mailing lists: The user support mailing list address is our main channel
for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem:
users@global.libreoffice.org. You need to subscribe to the list first
before you can post a question. To do that, just send an empty message
(no subject line, no message body) to
users+subscribe@global.libreoffice.org. Instructions will be mailed back
to you immediately (check for new mail, and check your spam/bulk mail
folder just in case). For information about our other mailing lists,
please visit the global mailing list index. For detailed instructions
about unsubscribing from a mailing list, please click here.
</quote>

Clicking 'please click here' links to:
<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>

On the <http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/> page:
<quote>
Information on how to unsubscribe from a list is sent to you in the
confirmation e-mail, and is also added to the footer of every message
posted. (If you need detailed instructions about unsubscribing from a
mailing list, please click here.)
</quote>

Clicking 'please click here' links to:
<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>

So I'm not sure what else can be done.

#15

NoOp wrote

So I'm not sure what else can be done.
--
For unsubscribe instructions e-mail to: users+help@.libreoffice

Simple! Just replace the link to the *instructions* e-mail for a link to the
actual *unsubscribe* e-mail.

#16

drewjensen wrote

Well, maybe some of it is that we are more then happy to make it dead
simple (one click on a web page) to get them subscribed... they don't
really have to read or understand much of anything. But if you want to
leave..different story - then we say- on your own buddy, or What you
can't read or Man are you stupid.

Maybe make that link in the footer of each email a real unsubscribe URl,
as we do to help get them subscribed, and not just a link to a help
page.

+1

If there are complains from people on getting out (and they obviously
managed to get in), it seems to me that the two processes aren't equally
simple.

Again, why isn't there a simple link to unsubscribe in each messages footer
instead of a link to Instructions on how to unsubscribe? It takes only two
clicks to subscribe and reading a whole page of instructions to unsubscribe.

Try to find this link in the instructions page:
users+unsubscribe(AT)global.libreoffice.org

....
http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/
<quote>
Mailing lists: The user support mailing list address is our main channel
for LibreOffice users needing help with a problem:
users@global.libreoffice.org. You need to subscribe to the list first
before you can post a question. To do that, just send an empty message
(no subject line, no message body) to
users+subscribe@global.libreoffice.org. Instructions will be mailed back
to you immediately (check for new mail, and check your spam/bulk mail
folder just in case). For information about our other mailing lists,
please visit the global mailing list index. For detailed instructions
about unsubscribing from a mailing list, please click here.
</quote>

Clicking 'please click here' links to:
<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>

On the <http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/> page:
<quote>
Information on how to unsubscribe from a list is sent to you in the
confirmation e-mail, and is also added to the footer of every message
posted. (If you need detailed instructions about unsubscribing from a
mailing list, please click here.)
</quote>

Clicking 'please click here' links to:
<http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/>

Sorry, forgot to add that this is on the instruction page:
<quote>
Send the unsubscription request

If you want to unsubscribe from the users@global.libreoffice.org mailing
list (our user support list), for example, send an e-mail message to
users+unsubscribe@global.libreoffice.org (if you were subscribed in
standard mode) or to users+unsubscribe-digest@global.libreoffice.org (if
you were subscribed in digest mode).
</quote>

#17

Right - and Florian addressed this earlier today.

At one point the email footer did include the unsubscribe URl for
standard subscriptions - but since it didn't unsubcribe those with
digest subscriptions and some complained it was dropped.

However - there is a planned upgrade to the list management software and
with that there will no longer be separate commands for normal /
digest / no-mail options - the one unsubscribe will suffice, so at that
point it, IMO, makes sense to put the actual command URl back into the
mail footer.

//drew

#18

Hi :slight_smile:
Sadly that was tried but many people use 1 email address for subscribing and then forwards mail from that to another one and read it there so the unsubscribe email address wouldn't act on the right address. 
Regards from
Tom :slight_smile:

#19

I have several email address.
One I use for e-newsletters, another for email lists like this one, while others for other specific things, etc.
So I do not need to do forwarding.

Are they forwarding the emails since they do not want their "regular" email address available through list services like this one? The solution is to go to other services, such as Gmail, Yahoo Mail, etc., etc.. It is always good to have a few "throw away" email accounts and use one for email lists.

That is just my opinion.

#20

Prior to the update to the netiquette wiki page, there was a link to a web page that told people how to make posts to newsgroups.

That link is not on the current wiki page, and I thought I had that link bookmarked. Does anyone have that URL? I thought I had bookmarked it, but apparently I didn't.